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RS400atC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by ColH

Originally posted by RS400atC

Trouble is, a lot of racing is below F4 and the only way you are going to get a PY of below 950 on a single sail rig is to have a big sail. It is a shame that reefing 600-style was not copied. Perhaps on a class with choice of sails, allowing reefs of smaller increments would be interesting?....

Choice of reefs would seem to tend back to the RS600/Blaze/LaserX000 attempts to rate rack width to crew weight? I know the Blaze has dropped that, though not sure about the other two. Or do you mean just a simple/efficient reefing method that any crew can apply as they wish?
Anyone else done the 80s RYA reefing of a Wayfarer, where you roll in the sail bag to use as the kicker....? T.....


Definitely free choice. Performance equalisation is a completely separate issue IMHO.

Old-skool reefing, been there, suffered that.
Even the old team racing trick of setting Firefly sails on Larks, or the Ents with their small sails option at Southport 24hr race is a very poor second to the 600 system, because you don't get the mast bend or gust response.
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ColH View Drop Down
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Posts: 242 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ColH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

 
Definitely free choice. Performance equalisation is a completely separate issue IMHO.
Are there still classes where 'equalisation' actually works? (Apart from GRF's New Contender - which I'd eagerly sign up for!!)
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:58pm
The problem with reefing single sail planing boats IME is that if you can possibly hang on to the extra rag upwind then you'll benefit like crazy on the next downwind. Its not really until the big rags give control problems downhill that its fast changing down. That being the case then you're not going to be comfortable in serious breze anyway.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by ColH

Are there still classes where 'equalisation' actually works?

Were there ever? While the owners of some classes thought it worked (which admittedly is 85% of the game) precious few of the equalised classes were actually much good,and you have to wonder if carting extra lead about was part of the reason why.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by ColH

Are there still classes where 'equalisation' actually works?

Were there ever? While the owners of some classes thought it worked (which admittedly is 85% of the game) precious few of the equalised classes were actually much good,and you have to wonder if carting extra lead about was part of the reason why.


It doesn't seem to do too much harm in the RS800. It means two fair size blokes don't have so far to stumble across the boat.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 6:23pm
I've come to the conclusion that in dinghies which differ from boards in the excesses of volume or what you sort of call displacement, over crew and hull weight, you have, as against what were used to where there's pretty close to deficit so we drop off the plane all to quick, and boats enjoy a much more efficient 'gliding through' phase from displacement to actually planing which we on boards tend to be either on or off, so what does this all mean, well it seems to point to the relationship between the driving force i.e the sail and the windspeed, being more closely allied to helm weight than it has ever appeared to me before.
The relationship between sailors of given weights on boards is much much more apparent in speed differences in marginal conditions than it appears to be in boats, which is what has lead me to this conclusion when I'm jiggling around looking for that Holy grail of the Yardstick spreadsheet formula which of course can never perfectly exist, but it can serve to illustrate with uncanny accuracy the differences all the factors make, including the trapeze it seems, and especially when your digging about looking for what might suit your particular requirements.

Edited by iGRF - 22 Feb 17 at 6:25pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by RS400atC


Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by ColH

Are there still classes where 'equalisation' actually works?

Were there ever? While the owners of some classes thought it worked (which admittedly is 85% of the game) precious few of the equalised classes were actually much good,and you have to wonder if carting extra lead about was part of the reason why.
It doesn't seem to do too much harm in the RS800. It means two fair size blokes don't have so far to stumble across the boat.


Yes, but then 800 has only just wised up to the forward hand taking the sheet off the boom.... weight equliaisation served its purpose, it helped in the overall presentation of inaccessible looking boats seem all the more accessible to joe average... one of RS's best 'crowd sourced' marketing lines was "you can even sail it with girls!" Cringeworthy now, but at the time absolutely genius!!!
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oinks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 7:54pm
"... if you can possibly hang on to the extra rag upwind then you'll benefit like crazy on the next downwind."

A top notch sailor (Endeavour winner) reckoned, in our class, he could just about hang on to most people at the front of the fleet with a very powered up rig, and then blow them away downwind. It worked quite spectacularly.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 8:19pm
That's very much the case on the sea and big open water, but ducking and diving, fetching and running in the confines of a puddle up on your ear upwind and spinning round tight gybes yards from the reeds, control downwind can be as important as up, which is my current domain.
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Posts: 323 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neal_g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 8:56pm
Is that the domain with toppers handing it to you
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