Dinghy Show 2017
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12664
Printed Date: 06 Jul 25 at 12:01pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Dinghy Show 2017
Posted By: jeffers
Subject: Dinghy Show 2017
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 9:48am
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OK, before TT and GRF rant about it.... Who is going and what are people looking forward to seeing? Personally I am quite looking forward to seeing a Fusion in the flesh as well as having a wonder round when I am not on the DS-Zero stand. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Replies:
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 11:32am
rant about it? No thanks.... I hope those who go enjoy their lovely day out.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 12:19pm
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Cut n paste from fb...
I'll probably be there Sat morning if only to have a look at those wunderfoilers, then I shall see the Solution folk and berate them about their continued love affair with crap masts, then I shall go Finn baiting and watch them tip champagne down the front of their shirts, then I shall try and seek out David Henshall and try to persuade him to do something about his idea for setting yardsticks, I'll then have another look at the Farr 37, I'm minded of something to trapeze this summer on the sea I'm getting bored of all this arse hanging, then.. well I don't know, you just never know who you'll bump into, before they can duck into a side corridor to avoid you. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 12:54pm
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iGRF Sensible question, also being not overly enamoured with hardcore hiking, especially singlenanded without a little crew assistance from a wire.Would you look at a blaze again now with the Fire rig?
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 1:22pm
Yes I did think about it, but you still have to wear those zhik hiking things on those Blaze bars, they can be very tedious, having said that I haven't sailed a Blaze since I became fully conversant with how single handers are supposed to be sailed, it was my first go, then I had a go in that RS100 and didn't really learn how to sail that properly either, it was only when I went down the lake and sailed in a really close confined bit of water with some properly well trained sailors that I got to spot how it's supposed to be done, that doesn't happen on the sea, not saying they're not good sailors, but the good ones tend to get up and go way ahead of you very quickly on open water so you can't imitate them, which is the only way I learn. So until I get exposed to some good guys sailing Blazes that are similar build to me I'll never know. The Blaze i owned is sailed by a really good ex SI but he's like 100 kilos so when it's blowing he's gone and when it's light I'm gone. I've not trapezed since the very first time I tried my hand at Dinghy sailing in the MPS so having a go in something tame that suits my build now I've finally come to terms with the fact there's nothing I can do about other than to accept it, might be the answer, so the only game in that town is that 3.7 which I know won't work on our wavelength, yet still, like the proverbial moth to a flame... What I really need is a light build Contender 'Fire' ;-) ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 3:51pm
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.....Would you look at a blaze again now with the Fire rig? Why did you suggest that ? .. He's just as liable to re-join the Blaze (Fire even) at some random date as to sl*g the boat off yet again. For goodness sake just let it drop or who knows what he might do next - we are all enjoying things just as they are thank you ! (It is the 'old girlfriend' thing between GRF and the Blaze - you know the way that one can go etc - maybe think of it as an 'old flame' to him )  The official line we would therefore propose with regard to GRF is 1) He really would not like it now 2) It is not suitable - 'you' are too heavy or light or young or old - well an argument along that sort of track anyway 3) All the events are miles and miles away from you anyway 4) Eating 'humble pie' would not suit you - well never 5) It is far too expensive for you 6) It is too refined and technical for you 7) It is far too basic and unrefined for you 8) You should never 'go back' in life 8) Any other reason not included above that might work ... PS - Seriously .... see you at the show GRF - happy as ever to buy you that beer and put the world to rights as usual. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 20 Feb 17 at 8:16pm
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Looking forward to seeing the Leader, back for the first time in years (decades?) just when I've bought one.
The Neo, too, to see if I can update/expand usage of junior group boats. Otherwise, the usual flashy, unattainable (to me) speed machines. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 8:00am
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iGRF. I can see the lure, gotta be a natural choice for you to wire a singlehander. You'll relish the feel through your feet and I notice that a lot of the Farr 3.7s are sheeting of the boom. 3.7 does seem short for waves but the Kiwis seem to get on alright, perhaps it's all in the technique; more foot steering fun for you.
CC. to Frankenboat string, ever thought of trying a L/V3000 on your own with main alone, maybe benefit from a self tacking jib to improve balance. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 9:25am
| Rumour has it that this is the last dinghy show.. in its current format anyway. Make the most of it folks.... |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 9:33am
A guy at our club has a V3000 which he often does well in, but he's never broken through single handed, I watched him mess with it a few times, not sure if he used a jib though. They've got a couple of used 3.7 hulls I'm going to the show to talk to them about. As to the Show Rumour, likely that's a venue issue rather than will there won't there be a show, it would be the worse days work the RYA ever did to drop the concept and almost certainly would open the door for an alternative. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 10:08am
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I think a number of classes are feeling the cost outweighs the effort, and the money can be put towards other activities for the class... It would be a real shame..but maybe a 'dinghy on the water' show where people take their kit and try all the boats they want might be an idea?.. ------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 10:57am
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I agree, the cost is high. I've spent time on several class committees and know it is a big drain on funds. But, the FARR 3.7 will be there this year! STAND c40 Come and have a chat! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 11:27am
Pleased to hear it. i will swing by and take a look (if my official duties allow). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 11:31am
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So what classes are not going to be at the show this year? * H2 - but Keith and co. will be there. * Blaze - Hartley will have a Blaze on show - just the association not there * Phantom - Ovington will have a Phantom on show - just the association not there * British Moth any other classes/associations not going this year? (opportunity to point people towards your website instead?) ------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 12:10pm
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I wonder how many people go to the Dinghy Show who are genuinely open minded to either taking up Dinghy Racing or changing to a different class? At the shows that I have done, more often working from a class association stand, many of the people looking around are also tied to a class association stand, so presumably not in the market. Many of the punters are within an hour of the Ally Pally, going for a day out to meet their mates, and committed to their existing clubs and classes. So maybe the Dinghy Show was suited to the growth spells of the 70's and 80's but less so now. Whilst demo's and festivals might represent an alternative ... these are quite weather dependent. ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 1:15pm
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The National Watersports Festival is moving to Rutland (and June) this year from its historic home on Hayling Beach. That would surely make a better showcase opportunity for dinghy sailing and dinghy sellers as it's actually focused on 'on-the-water' things to do.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 1:17pm
Well that's that dead and buried, nothing good comes out of Rutland, except the road home. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: mothlee
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 1:30pm
Glad Elaine and I decided to go this year if it could be the last one. Havnt been since the British moths stopped going. Will do my normal round of looking at streakers/lightning/supernovas/ comets/d zeros etc trying to decide what to buy but in the end just stay sailing the laser.  Might even try and see Paul J and try and explain why I don't really like open transom boats. 😃
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Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 2:40pm
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It is very probable that the Blaze CA, in addition to Hartley Boats, will return in the future. However as Hartleys will be showing a brand-new one produced in Derby this time it simply makes sense to let them bang the drum on their own this year. Visitors will naturally want to see their take on the Blaze this time. With a backlog of new boat orders in the mid-20's for Hartleys and already well over 50 pre-paid entrants for the June Nationals things are going rather well all round.... a record year in the making. If anyone wants to speak to someone from the CA at the show there will still be plenty around over the weekend. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 3:38pm
If you are there Sunday pop by. I will be on or around the stand most of the day. if not Jon will be. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: mothlee
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 6:07pm
We are going on the Saturday I am afraid. Catch you at hunts sometime. 😊 |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 6:31pm
There's very few dinghies as elegant-looking as a Contender  And those are generally old designs - 470, FF, FD, IC, Oppie [joke!]. Or is that just me showing my age?! Whether it would go as well, or look 'right', with a smaller rig is harder to judge.... but nice idea... (That said - am looking forward to delivery of my Fire sail....!) |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 6:53pm
The Canoes will be back this time, and the latest boats are quite spectacular beasts. Well worth seeing, he said, with a touch of bias...
Photo (c) http://www.c12performanceboats.co.uk/ |
Posted By: Glitcher7
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 7:39pm
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Are you sure you should be posting that before the watershed? ------------- Farr 3.7 398 in build Laser 137012 Norfolk Punt 100 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 21 Feb 17 at 7:57pm
Agreed - I couldn't make last year due to a family wedding, seeing this year's is an inland jobby, I hadn't even considered it. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 10:16am
Well as a rule of thumb, I'm finding the optimum sail size one can handle across a broad range of conditions is ones weight in kilos over 10 in sq mtrs, given the volume of the boat is at least double that weight in litres, which most dinghys are. Ad a trapeze to that and the size increases by at least twenty five percent. So 70 kg over 10 = 7sq mtrs, plus 1.25 x 7 = 8.75 which is a guideline to the sort of sail size my weight should be capable of supporting at the top end with a trapeze providing the boat didn't weigh any more than me all up. I'm not sure what size that Fire rig is, but the Blaze is a similar Lump to the Contender and a well sailed Blaze can match a Contender in marginal conditions, not so when they're fully wired, but we're talking averages here, so I think in a perfect world a redesigned smaller rig could work for lightweights on a Contender just as it does on the Blaze certainly when the breeze is up. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 10:20am
Well that certainly looks worth going to have a look at and being ignored by somebody with a self satisfied smirk with a thought bubble above his head which says 'You wouldn't get it even if I tried to explain to you sonny so move on'.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 10:32am
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I had a great chat to the IC folks last year, and look forward to popping by again. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 10:56am
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Best not to confuse indifference with sympathy.. ;-)
------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:01am
Looks like Vlad Murnikov has been designing canoes! MX-Next anyone? Funny how a canoe is cool and a Russian designer is not.  ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:04am
| it's seeing boats like Canoes which arguably make the Dinghy Show worth attending..... I'm not sure it really does much to actually encourage someone with vanilla tastes to go and buy one, but a show without a well-strung Merlin, International Canoe, the latest Cherub etc would make an otherwise dull day, even duller. |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:29am
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Yep agreed James. Always went just to see the latest canoe, moth and other development boats. Let's face it seeing a laser or aero every year is not very interesting. ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:37am
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Blaze Fire = 8.8m sail area But please 'No' GRF - we are certainly not recommending it for you - it really would not be your cup of tea ! |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 12:43pm
| F101 on the Harken stand. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 12:48pm
Not on a boat that weighs 72 kgs I agree even sailing off 1070 (What my spreadsheet suggests it should be), Now if the hull weighed 50 kgs had a trapeze and sailed off 1033 as a result, well that would be interesting. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 1:12pm
Why wouldn't such a beast rate about 920 or whatever a 600 rates this week? |
Posted By: Daniel Holman
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 1:40pm
Exactly. Anyone can buy wetsuit boots online, or books or whatever. Talk sh1t in an adenoidal voice online (well less so last few years it would seem) That side of things is garnish. Boat show deals on dinghies are nonsense if you cost your time to go to the boat show. A large and prescient collection of sad blokes latest quixotic endeavours under a well lit roof after a long cold winter is where it's at, lubricated by overpriced lager (at least it's getting colder) with ones mates that one only sees on an annual basis. That is the unique value proposition for me always has been. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 2:22pm
That's because that particular Frankenboat was based on a Blaze, if it were based on a Contender with a hull weight no different to current just an 8.8 sail then it should sail off 1002 if they dropped the hull weight to say 50 kgs, then it would sail off somewhere around 966. Your RS600 is currently shown faster than perhaps it should be given it's specs, I'd have it at 933. at the required crew weight (120kgs) it's tricky because of the racks and the leverage, put a normal weight crew say 90kgs into the mix and you get 901, but doubtful they could handle 12.2 mtrs once it got 'interesting', the boat is over canvassed. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 2:26pm
Ah, yes but the novelty wears off eventually. A bit like travelling to open meetings for quality racing in a dinghy you actually have a sense of pride and achievement in owning.... it all seems rather a selfish pursuit against the backdrop of modern family life in a post-Pankhurst era of grown men attending Play Dates, Pottery classes and Build a Bear parties. It's time to get new mates Dan.... 'Other Dads met at the PTA quiz' are a good stock to retain a self-styled sense of superiority and smugness. It might be the social equivalent of punting a 14xxxxx number Laser around the back of the fleet at the local duck pond, but there can be a few gems in there worth buying a round for if you 'open up' enough... Just brush up on all this Rugby bullsh*t that seems to occupy their obsessions right now. After all it's not 'road bike weather' unless you've changed your tyres... the rest, well it should be easy for a guy with your vocabulary and sharp wit.
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Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 2:31pm
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Not on a boat that weighs 72 kgs I agree even sailing off 1070 (What my
spreadsheet suggests it should be), Now if the hull weighed 50 kgs had a
trapeze and sailed off 1033 as a result, well that would be
interesting. Phew - said you would not like it ! (But for information only now the hull complete but ex wing system and corrector weights does weigh ... wait for it, wait for it just about 51kg). If you want a trapeze just get on with it buy a Farr 3.9 - there is nothing else 'standard' that might do for real 'light-weights' who want to dangle around on a bit of spare rigging for the amusement of others... great upwind but those reaches might be interesting in proper waves in a short hull (presumably this will all be done for laughs)... and you don't want to 'customise' (ie most likely RUIN !) a perfectly good standard class boat. Slightly more seriously your spreadsheet is not far out as to a likely PN for 'Fire' (This is NOT an endorsement of your calcs btw - it might just spit this one out coincidentally) ... RYA don't seem to have any numbers (yet) and GL handicappers are provisionally applying a (slightly punitive) trial number of '1050' - most clubs that are prepared to use their own brains seem to centre around a local figure of '1065'ish - so Supernova / Aero 7 country. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 2:31pm
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Be warned, it doesn't always work out, ditching your sport mates for the new parents of daughters friends, that can get bloody as time goes on trust me.. Big upheavals when they all go to different big schools or if you have daughters then one of them gets a boy in the mix, parents of boys don't mix with parents of girls, not for long.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 2:40pm
yes, but by the time this all passes, life progresses to a different stage.... and it's not long before you're back at the dinghy show, brimming with enthusiasm for weighing up the merits of a navy blue Supernova vs something more muted, or God forbid, a Solo.... made of wood, safe in the knowledge that you've saved them at least the cost of the coffin for that 'Valhalla Send Off' your solicitor will spare them the knowledge of.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:00pm
In my experience the 600 can sail to 920, at least in that window of 6 months between getting competent on it and cashing it in for an MPS. Many (inc me) don't fully get competent before being drawn back to something easier. Depends somewhat on the course, it suffers on a dead run, but is a weapon on the reaches of a 'random harbour tour'. There are of course few things to sensibly benchmark the 600 against. The list of kiteless boats you'll find on the same leg of the course being sparse. Whether it's fairly 900 or 930 is academic when nearly all the alternatives are lumbering around in the 'medium' fleet with 4 digit PYs. Is it over canvassed? Surely if so, it would pay to use the reefing facility a lot more? Don't forget it has a wide rack option for the undernourished. In my view, a boat with significant flaws but a useful benchmark of 'progress' since last century? |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:11pm
indeed- nothing quite as 'pure' as one upwind though is there? I wonder if a softer sail, maybe a more kicked-up (carbon) boom and some chines would do wonders for it personally? I always thought it was tragedy when the stock of quality 2nd hand boats got cannibalised on to the foiler for fatties band waggon..... but I guess if you were busy doing your damnedest to market the RS700 against the arguably better all-round MPS, your focus wouldn't be on what was happening with your legacy products either.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:16pm
That's obviously a question of when, but in my search for ultimate truth, it gets back to what we used to call the Force Four barrier in the Original windsurfing days, something that got eliminated with other tricks, but illustrates the point at which sailing becomes increasingly shall we say 'interesting' for anyone beyond that weight over ten = sail size in sq mtrs. and every gust over force four increases the power by 50% to double. So if you weigh less than 120 kilos and are not totally proficient getting on that wire and out on those racks, you are going to have problems with a 12.2 sq mtr sail as the wind moves above Force 4. In my case I have problems particularly more so with fixed rigs, if I use a sail bigger than 7.5 in that scenario and since my boat of joy sports an 8.5 I'm sh*t out of luck at anything above 15 knots, but I figure a Trapeze would, like a windsurfer give me just a little more high end as it does with an 8.5 on a board. So that Fire rig, or the Farr rig and a wire do seem a bit of a better option for use on the sea. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:20pm
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Sorry dinghy show folk this should all be in the other Frankenboat thread, apologies. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:28pm
No doubt the Laser Radial rig, if it had started only being used by 12-stoners in a F6+ would also have started with a hefty handicap from the likes of GL/SJ...? Hope 'brains', and ongoing club returns of course, will see it stabilise accurate and fair. Well, as much as handicap racing can be...! |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:29pm
A case of "I know exactly what boys are like... I used to be one...." ??  |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 3:30pm
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Trouble is, a lot of racing is below F4 and the only way you are going to get a PY of below 950 on a single sail rig is to have a big sail. It is a shame that reefing 600-style was not copied. Perhaps on a class with choice of sails, allowing reefs of smaller increments would be interesting? Maybe what we are avoiding saying is that no one single hander class can cover even a 2-sigma variation of adult helm sizes? |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:05pm
Choice of reefs would seem to tend back to the RS600/Blaze/LaserX000 attempts to rate rack width to crew weight? I know the Blaze has dropped that, though not sure about the other two. Or do you mean just a simple/efficient reefing method that any crew can apply as they wish? Anyone else done the 80s RYA reefing of a Wayfarer, where you roll in the sail bag to use as the kicker....? Try that off Cumbrae, at 17, with a massive hangover...  Even 2-sigma is quite a wide spread statistically - ideally it would probably need either the weight of people to be controlled (perhaps Tr^mp can bring in legislation....?), or control over wind strengths (I think they always were for Forrest Gump, until he tried to leave!)  |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:52pm
Definitely free choice. Performance equalisation is a completely separate issue IMHO. Old-skool reefing, been there, suffered that. Even the old team racing trick of setting Firefly sails on Larks, or the Ents with their small sails option at Southport 24hr race is a very poor second to the 600 system, because you don't get the mast bend or gust response. |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:56pm
Are there still classes where 'equalisation' actually works? (Apart from GRF's New Contender - which I'd eagerly sign up for!!) |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 4:58pm
| The problem with reefing single sail planing boats IME is that if you can possibly hang on to the extra rag upwind then you'll benefit like crazy on the next downwind. Its not really until the big rags give control problems downhill that its fast changing down. That being the case then you're not going to be comfortable in serious breze anyway. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 5:17pm
Were there ever? While the owners of some classes thought it worked (which admittedly is 85% of the game) precious few of the equalised classes were actually much good,and you have to wonder if carting extra lead about was part of the reason why. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 6:17pm
It doesn't seem to do too much harm in the RS800. It means two fair size blokes don't have so far to stumble across the boat. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 6:23pm
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I've come to the conclusion that in dinghies which differ from boards in the excesses of volume or what you sort of call displacement, over crew and hull weight, you have, as against what were used to where there's pretty close to deficit so we drop off the plane all to quick, and boats enjoy a much more efficient 'gliding through' phase from displacement to actually planing which we on boards tend to be either on or off, so what does this all mean, well it seems to point to the relationship between the driving force i.e the sail and the windspeed, being more closely allied to helm weight than it has ever appeared to me before.
The relationship between sailors of given weights on boards is much much more apparent in speed differences in marginal conditions than it appears to be in boats, which is what has lead me to this conclusion when I'm jiggling around looking for that Holy grail of the Yardstick spreadsheet formula which of course can never perfectly exist, but it can serve to illustrate with uncanny accuracy the differences all the factors make, including the trapeze it seems, and especially when your digging about looking for what might suit your particular requirements. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 7:50pm
Yes, but then 800 has only just wised up to the forward hand taking the sheet off the boom.... weight equliaisation served its purpose, it helped in the overall presentation of inaccessible looking boats seem all the more accessible to joe average... one of RS's best 'crowd sourced' marketing lines was "you can even sail it with girls!" Cringeworthy now, but at the time absolutely genius!!! |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 7:54pm
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"... if you can possibly hang on to the extra rag upwind then you'll benefit like crazy on the next downwind." A top notch sailor (Endeavour winner) reckoned, in our class, he could just about hang on to most people at the front of the fleet with a very powered up rig, and then blow them away downwind. It worked quite spectacularly.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 8:19pm
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That's very much the case on the sea and big open water, but ducking and diving, fetching and running in the confines of a puddle up on your ear upwind and spinning round tight gybes yards from the reeds, control downwind can be as important as up, which is my current domain. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Neal_g
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 8:56pm
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Is that the domain with toppers handing it to you ------------- (Redoubt Sc) Miracle 4040 GP14 13407 Crewsaver phase 2 range now available to buy online on at http://www.gibsonsails.com |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 10:48pm
I'm pretty sure that the Europe Class won't be there either due to costs, but it's still a fabulous boat with a lovely Class set up and open racing. http://www.ukeuropeclass.com ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:00pm
I have another Solution to that, involving death threats.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Oinks
Date Posted: 22 Feb 17 at 11:16pm
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Might be a Solution...but its not the answer
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Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 7:30am
| it would be a shame if this was the last show, as it would spoil my plan of going once every three years. The ageing brain has forgotten previous visits and you dont notice its the same thing dragged out each time. |
Posted By: 2547
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 10:52am
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The Dinghy Show is a pre-season social event. A chance to catch up with friends who now frequent other classes and generally gossip ...
If it stops it will be a great shame. I wonder what the objectives of the show are from the RYAs perspective ...?? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 11:01am
| Is there a single credible bit of evidence for this rumour? Apart from anything else, normally if an event is going to be the last one its publicised because turnout is likely to increase. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 11:44am
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Suzuki end of sponsorship, last year on the Ally Pally contract...
dead? No, not necessarily Change? Inevitable. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 12:23pm
FB chatter, there was apparently a meeting of stakeholders the respondent went to, the Suzuki Sponsorship is ending as is the shows tenure at the Alexandra Palace, so discussions were taking place as to what to do next. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 6:53pm
If you could see me now I'm doing the "move it somewhere else like Birmingham or just anywhere outside the M25" dance and crossing my fingers |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 7:08pm
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Birmingham would make sense, in the dinghy heartlands ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 7:47pm
It would be the last time lots from the South Coast would bother, Birmingham is the absolute pits of hell, I don't think there's a single thing that would persuade me to venture there for pleasure, it was bad enough when work forced trips there. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 8:08pm
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Typical Southerner, anything north of Watford is labled "here be dragons"
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 8:32pm
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Nope we also used to enjoy our annual trade show when it was in Manchester, a great city, then it moved to Telford, also quite fun, that Ironbridge is quaint and the beer not too expensive, it's just Birmingham that sucks, probably just ahead of Liverpool in vying for the ultimate title - City Hell on Earth. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 23 Feb 17 at 10:22pm
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TBF I almost agree........ (but as a Lancashire lad, from when Manchester was in Lancashire I suppose I'm honour bound)........
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 7:12am
| When will HS2 complete....? You could in and out of Brummie within a day, balti'd and lagered up to your eyeballs.... of course you need to be careful Graeme;,according to Trump supporters the entire city is run by Islamic State... but I'll lend you my Douglas Gill Hijab, you'll be fine. |
Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 8:40am
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The central Southcoast could definetly get to Birmingham easier than North East London.
Isnt there a good location near Warwick for smaller show like the DiNGHY Show? ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 10:27am
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I predict that the Dinghy Show organisers will (try to) tag onto the Boat Show at ExCel (heard it here first)
------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 10:40am
If it's to be tagged on to a boat show, then make it the Soton show. If I never have to go to ExCel again, I'll be very happy. ------------- Steve |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 10:43am
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Those idiots that run the Boat show couldn't organise the proverbial pee up in a Brewery, they stumbled across the perfect synergy for a couple of year with the combination of Boat, Cycle & Outdoor which certainly gave the Cycle element a boost and brought a diverse group of visitors to add a touch of hair colour to the increasing grey wash that ran through the corridors of previous years, then they lost it, the bike show moved to join the motorcycle show and the Boat show continued back into oblivion. I very much doubt having dinghys alongside will do anything for either camp, there's no way the classes could afford Excel and the commercial stands that didn't already exhibit at the Boat show, would never cope with the staff, accommodation and stand rental costs. Nice idea, but unlikely model to succeed plus bad timing, the Boat Show lost the plot when they moved away from that dead week between Xmas and New Year. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 10:51am
That could be sensible if there's room, it's a bit 'still in the season' and lacks that early spring excitement factor but it would give builders the opportunity to take forward orders to make hay through the winter with. Would classes be able to make it then? Is there not lots of other stuff going on? I only started going to the S'oton show in recent years and it always seems a bit of a 'last of the summer wine affair' only exhibited there once on the back of another company and it was quite literally a wash out. Not that exhibiting at the Dinghy show was necessarily a commercial success the few times we did it, but then I'm trying to keep some perspective here as a visitor, would I go? Probably yes I might in September especially if there were more racing dinghies there than the lamentable Osprey and a few Hartley leisure craft. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 11:06am
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How on earth would any dinghy association be able to run or man a stand at a 10 day event such as either of the Boat Shows. Surely the benefit of a two day show is that there is a fair chance of meeting up with your mates or past mates by turning up for one of the two days? Over 10 days little chance. If the RYA does pull the rug, no doubt to help pay their increasing pensions bill, the LBS and Southampton Boat Show will no doubt have a bigger dinghy presence as the bigger manufacturers, Laser, Topper, Hartley, RS need venues to pedal their wares. Maybe we should go back to basics and find a venue like Pickets Lock or Crystal Palace with prices that the Class Associations can afford? ------------- Happily living in the past |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 11:39am
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"Isnt there a good location near Warwick for smaller show like the DiNGHY Show?"
Yup. Its called Stoneleigh where they used to run the Royal Show before foot and mouth. Lots of lovely empty cattle sheds and exhibition halls plus plenty of parking. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 11:43am
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re. ExCel >> Does the RYA want anyone else to attend other than: Laser, Topper, Hartley, RS who have highly professional stands/staff. Add in a few famous/medalist faces for the press and you have a winning combination to show off that Sailing is worthy of its £26ml lottery funding.. ------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 12:09pm
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Stoneleigh. No way. If it was there I would never go again and I only live 2 miles away. |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 1:02pm
It's not a bad venue imho... that close it'd be rude not to go (before sneaking back to Leamington for a decent night out) |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 1:29pm
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Methinks that there may be a little bit of forumite keyboarditis going on here, with some excitable posters floating ideas that are simply wrong as near statements of fact (a message for some of them.... there could be a job for you with the White House Press Corps). So, it won't be at Alexandra Palace and it may actually look very different, but why not give the organisers some breathing space - they have a show to run in a week's time. From what I'm seeing, you might all be pleasantly surprised. D
------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 1:41pm
| There is also the Warwickshire Exhibition Centre between Leamington Spa and Southam. I have not been but have heard it said that the ceilings might not be high enough in places to cope with the masts. |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:09pm
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Not been inside but the buildings look quite low from outside so probably mast comment is correct. The one advantage that it and Stoneleigh have is that everything is on the level - no ally pally hill plus no need to trek down the M1 or M25 unless you have the misfortune to live in London. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:36pm
Urban elite anti-brexit types... coming up to the shire? |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:41pm
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TT..... you're not normally slow to read between the lines! I dropped some pretty mahoosive hints in my last post.... suggesting that the future might not be the same as the past, but might even be betterer!!! D
------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:44pm
Not a problem, think Warwick and Leamington voted remain.
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Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:56pm
| Yep- but no one cares wot those knobs think 😂😘 |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 2:58pm
From memory, the areas outside of Warwick and Leam voted OUT. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 3:01pm
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hey I just said "outside of the M25", I got nothing against Brum and even Manchester would be easier to reach from the south coast than Ally pally, the A406 and M25 are hateful and only "bested" by the atrocious weekend London public transport, engineering works and bus-replacement nightmares include. Who cares which way they voted in that referendum that's slowly being ignored anyhow !! |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 3:20pm
Country folk did... massively. |
Posted By: tink
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 3:24pm
I have read quite a bit of this thread and flabbergasted that such a poisonous person is tolerated on this forum. If you don't have a positive contribution just shut up you sad little man. ------------- Tink https://tinkboats.com http://proasail.blogspot.com |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 3:41pm
I know, what an arse.... he even convinced some of our Laser fleet that bacon and beer was a sin. I think they've been radialised. |
Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 3:42pm
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phew!! thought tink was talking about me at first!! - I'm opting out of this thread now, before saying anything else ;)
------------- Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 4:30pm
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Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 24 Feb 17 at 4:46pm
Please don't let him put you off. Grumph is a troll, in the modern vernacular, although Golem would be a better metaphor. And yes, he is little. He is a sailboard pioneer and legend from its early days, he tells us (constantly), migrated to dinghies a few years ago but simply does not understand how a sailing dinghy works. Without his crass provocativeness, there would be virtually nothing to read on this forum, although he's almost certainly also driven a few participants away as he seeks diversions from the boredom of his shop. There are two recommended approaches with iGRF - one is the "never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you on experience" angle. After all, it's just attention-seeking behaviour, best ignored, otherwise you just encourage it. The other, if you want some entertainment and have some time, is to string him along like you might a 419 Nigerian e-mail scammer. The best bit with the latter is that everyone else can see it and is enjoying themselves laughing at him but our resident Golem posts on, digging his hole deeper and deeper. Some of his classics include theories... - that phantoms got faster because sandwich construction made the hulls wider and bigger (er, no the measurements are taken from the outside, not the inside of the hull), - that Lasers are faster on salt-water (or is it fresh) because the salinity makes them float differently (like everything else then, but to an extent that is totally irrelevant in the context of all the other variables) and - that Portsmouth Yardsticks are a conspiracy against him personally, managed by people locked in smoke-filled rooms, not a statistical number crunching data with faults, but objective faults at least. His resolution of course, ignoring all provided references to the disastrous history of such schemes, is for his own set of rating rules, determined by, um, someone sitting in a smoke-filled room. This demonstrates not only a blindness to the irony of it but also a complete lack of understanding of the complexities of what makes a boat go, or not, in a particular circumstance and of the law of unintended consequences. This post is of course likely to result in me getting an ad-hominim flaming in return, but, uniquely, I did sort of start it this time. So hang in here and just laugh at the crassness. It can be both fun and thought-provoking on here. Final thought, be warned that, in tribute to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law" rel="nofollow - Godwin's Law , virtually every discussion on here does end up hijacked to the subject of Portsmouth Numbers ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |