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That Extra 2-3%

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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: That Extra 2-3%
    Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 1:26pm
In our dreams!
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 3:47pm
Not do it better, but see it better. Be better at picking the right options whenever they occur. We all know to sail to the shifts but we still get stuck on the wrong one more or less often. We know to pick a clear lane, but still get stuck in dirty air when we could have avoided it, had we seen the situation clearly, seen the possibilities early enough.

Maybe that is the 2%.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 4:19pm
Marginal Gains?
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PeteM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeteM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 5:50pm
My claim to fame was going through the start gate at a 505 Nats next to Mike Holt and Andy Smith, more by luck than good judgement.  On the first beat, we were hanging on ok, I'd clearly got the rig about right (see above about luck and judement) but by the windward mark both boats had literally gone - all that had happened was 2 tacks.  So I go with Mike, I know his preparation is excellent and clearly so is his practice - clealy shows.  From what I've seen from the mid to rear of the fleet, the guys up front get the rig right, and then make very few mistakes and keep it clean.  I haven't seen too many heroics, - just solid sailing - when I've been close enough to see!
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 6:02pm
If I recall correctly, sailing a 505 is as much about tuning the cheque book as the rig if my history serves me well. Probably much like what is probably going on at the front of the Advanced Racing Cockle Boat Fleet these days.

Edited by iGRF - 15 Feb 17 at 6:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeteM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 6:23pm
Not quite so - my boat was 8419 - nearly 20 years old at the time, ok I had 'upgraded it' twin poles, decent mast and sails - but actually the basic boat was going every bit as fast Mike's and Andy's - they just did those 2 tacks in a choppy sea, far better than I did and they just made fewer mistakes.  Now as to who won the race between them, and why, the 2-3% bit, I can't answer that!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 6:50pm
So it's just like the first 97-98%, sail faster, in the right direction and make fewer mistakes than the next guy and Robert is your relative :)

I s'pose the difference between first and halfway down the fleet at the Olympics is 2-3% and at the club, probably 20-30% or more. Though, I have to say they do seem to be just as spread out crossing the finish line at the Olympics as they do at a typical open meeting. I guess the races are usually longer mind you.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 15 Feb 17 at 6:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mike Holt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by iGRF

If I recall correctly, sailing a 505 is as much about tuning the cheque book as the rig if my history serves me well. Probably much like what is probably going on at the front of the Advanced Racing Cockle Boat Fleet these days.

Absolutely, get the zero's in the right order and it's easy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 17 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


So it's just like the first 97-98%, sail faster, in the right direction and make fewer mistakes than the next guy and Robert is your relative :)
I s'pose the difference between first and halfway down the fleet at the Olympics is 2-3% and at the club, probably 20-30% or more. Though, I have to say they do seem to be just as spread out crossing the finish line at the Olympics as they do at a typical open meeting. I guess the races are usually longer mind you.


Many years ago when called upon to give lectures on this stuff, I used to use the analogy of ball bearings and a funnel which is what we are, all trying to be first into the hole. So what is it that makes that first ball bearing enter the hole, and basically it gets down to very very small variations, when you're at a very high level I would say it's less than a 1% error and that depends on when you make the error. Another thing I used to point out, in a fleet of a hundred board/boats, instantly the gun goes the fleet divides into three, then it does it again a few more yards out due to the wind bent through the sails causing lee bow and covering.

So make a 1 second mistake in the first second and you risk losing 60 places instantly, you can make a second mistake later on and it cost you nothing, you could dry capsize near the top mark and you might only lose a couple of places.
We all know they who win most make the least mistakes and if they do make them, they make them when it doesn't matter as much or have the ability to correct them quicker or have other tricks up their sleeves than not many folk know about.

On the sea with big fleets I often postulated that given air is disturbed for five times the height of any obstacle in front of that obstacle it therefore follows that the wind is disturbed ahead of us on the start line for thirty metres or so (5 x mast height) so, it is imperative to get out to the side as soon as possible until the fleet breaks up, which was another reason the starboard end and right was always the favourite if no other more obvious tactical choice were about. A small consideration, not one I've ever seen written elsewhere but a fact nonetheless and just another of the many variables that make everything so damned interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 17 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

So it's just like the first 97-98%, sail faster, in the right direction and make fewer mistakes than the next guy and Robert is your relative :)

I s'pose the difference between first and halfway down the fleet at the Olympics is 2-3% and at the club, probably 20-30% or more. Though, I have to say they do seem to be just as spread out crossing the finish line at the Olympics as they do at a typical open meeting. I guess the races are usually longer mind you.

Sailing is just like capitalism, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer  LOL  You get the same fleet spread regardless of the quality, there's probably a nice formula about decreasing boat density round the course over time that holds true.
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