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That Extra 2-3%

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: That Extra 2-3%
    Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 12:49pm
Self belief is certainly true, and my open meeting results have always been better than my Nationals, mainly because I believe I'm good on small water and crap on the sea.

The upwind downwind thing. Upwind, the speeds are similar, but direction is everything. Downwind, especially in a boat like the 300, speed is going to really count. In a boat where the difference between flat out and quite competent is smaller, then I suspect tactical considerations and mark positioning will be relatively more important.

This is all 20% stuff, though, not 2%.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Oinks

There's that thing about "being in the groove",when everything rather mystically all suddenly comes together. I've had that, but can't for the life of me quantitatively or qualitatively ascertain what it was so I could reproduce it on a regular basis!

 that's the problem ...  ' in the groove'  or a performance with 'sparkle'   it;s intangible  that comes after you have reached unconscious competence ...   some people never reach that level of  performance they can go through the motions  technically  well but they just don;t seem ot  m get to the bit  where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts ... 

 It happens in the perfomance of any skill  whether that;s driving, sailing ,  dancing  or whatever... 

It's what  gets the 'advanced' driver  his/her Class 1 / RoSPA  gold ,  it;s what gets the sailor  on the podium / that squad place; It's what get's the dancer the contract or the 'vocational school' place ... 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 9:54am
This is actually a really interesting thread. 
Its the difference between the top half dozen at a Nationals who turn up with a serious prospect of winning and then the other fifty odd who have various other targets.
It gets really interesting when you get one of the top guys have a bad gybe or something that puts them upside down and once the right way up again they are behind the mid fleet who are squabbling their way around the coarse, needlessly covering each other and pushing high on reaches. I am always amazed with the speed in which they carve through the melee and end up challenging back up the front again. 
Having had the pleasure of sailing with one of the pro jockeys a few years ago, what got me was the step up in intensity and feel they have for the boat as well as the situational awareness ALL the time, yet they make it look so easy. I felt like a complete bumbling fool/fish out of water (luckily the Pro I was sailing with is a very pleasant fellow and didn't get too annoyed, probably more entertained by my complete uselessness in the front).
Though mentally exhausting it was a great experience and I am truly thankful for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 11:33am
Originally posted by JohnJack

This is actually a really interesting thread. 
Its the difference between the top half dozen at a Nationals who turn up with a serious prospect of winning and then the other fifty odd who have various other targets.
It gets really interesting when you get one of the top guys have a bad gybe or something that puts them upside down and once the right way up again they are behind the mid fleet who are squabbling their way around the coarse, needlessly covering each other and pushing high on reaches. I am always amazed with the speed in which they carve through the melee and end up challenging back up the front again. 
Having had the pleasure of sailing with one of the pro jockeys a few years ago, what got me was the step up in intensity and feel they have for the boat as well as the situational awareness ALL the time, yet they make it look so easy. I felt like a complete bumbling fool/fish out of water (luckily the Pro I was sailing with is a very pleasant fellow and didn't get too annoyed, probably more entertained by my complete uselessness in the front).
Though mentally exhausting it was a great experience and I am truly thankful for it.


This is one of the reason why your tacking, gybing and mark rounding manoeuvers need to be done automatically. So you can get your head out of the boat and see what is going on around you. Getting a feel for the wind and how the boats reacts is the next step. Once you can do all of that you can concentrate on the extra bit that will lift you above the competition. There are a lot of mid-fleet people who have some serious boat speed in a straight line but their manoeuvering and tactical decisions let them down badly.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 11:46am
Originally posted by zippyRN


 ' in the groove'  or a performance with 'sparkle'   it;s intangible  that comes after you have reached unconscious competence ...   some people never reach that level of  performance they can go through the motions  technically  well but they just don;t seem ot  m get to the bit  where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts ...  It happens in the perfomance of any skill  whether that;s driving, sailing ,  dancing  or whatever... 
It's what  gets the 'advanced' driver  his/her Class 1 / RoSPA  gold ,  it;s what gets the sailor  on the podium / that squad place; It's what get's the dancer the contract or the 'vocational school' place ... 


We used to refer to it as being 'In the Zone', Not so sure I'd apply it to advanced driving, more likely to get you banned in a car, it's when everything comes as you anticipate it should, you're on a performance 'high' wether adrenaline or endorphin generated, only time I could artificially induce it would be by getting angry, either at myself for a foolish error or by someone infringing my progress, but once you get in it, you're superhuman, wish I could do it these days. An extreme example coming round the bottom mark 30th on the last beat and still finishing first, can remember it to this day and every shift on Derwent reservoir, the lake district one, I'd been knocked off at the gybe mark and was mad as hell..

There is absolutely not a snowballs chance in hell of me ever getting 'In the Zone' in a dinghy, but I can see guys who do, remember that quote from Ainslie about it being best not to make him mad...

Edited by iGRF - 13 Feb 17 at 11:49am
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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by jeffers

This is one of the reason why your tacking, gybing and mark rounding manoeuvers need to be done automatically. So you can get your head out of the boat and see what is going on around you. Getting a feel for the wind and how the boats reacts is the next step. Once you can do all of that you can concentrate on the extra bit that will lift you above the competition. There are a lot of mid-fleet people who have some serious boat speed in a straight line but their manoeuvering and tactical decisions let them down badly.

Its like driving a car, there is a certain amount of passive concentration going on. 
When you learn to drive there seems to be an awful lot going on, and the first time you get up to 60mph on an A road it feels really fast. Now doing 70mph on a motorway is a little...... meh if you know what I mean......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mike Holt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 17 at 4:31am
This thread does have some great comments and information. I used to watch boats "sail through" a fleet wondering how the hell they did that? They weren't sailing any faster or marginally. So what makes up the difference? I believe that it is more than 2-3% more like 10%. If a race lasts 60 minutes, 10% is 6 minutes. Where is that won and lost? Not boat speed, that maybe makes up 1-2 minutes? But starts, tacks, marks and gybes. AKA race management. Making clear, fast decisions, getting out of bad situations and capitalizing on opportunities.
When I get a bad start, I am looking to get to the best place on the course as fast as I can, cut the losses as quick as possible. Then exploit opportunity. Do not get on lay lines, do not take flyers. Bit by bit sail clean and fast. Amazing how often that gets you around the course quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 17 at 9:30am
That approach is the exact opposite of what was recommended back in the '60s when I was first learning to race. "Taking a likely looking flier" (to quote Eric Twiname) was to be encouraged as, if you are down the pan anyway, small gains might get you from last to halfway up the fleet but will never get you the win. The conservative approach works if you are a better sailor than the majority of the fleet, or the mistake was relatively small (as would likely be the case if you are that aforementioned 'better sailor'). Banging a corner is not a 50:50 bet unless you make the decision on the flip of a coin, and a good choice can (but won't always) bring much bigger gains than sailing up the middle. But, go to the wrong side and the potential losses are equally huge (but if you're already last.....).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 17 at 10:20am
Getting 'through' a fleet is only really er 'easy' if there are fast oscillating shifts and the reason you can do it is very often that far into a race, 'they' are all focussed on each other rather than the main event which is to get round the marks.
So, I tended to clear my head focus just on the next mark and ignore everything and everybody other than that, the mark provides a reference to stay in synch with the particular shift you are on, one must also always remember in these conditions, whatever shift you have, is not necessarily relevant to what others might have on different parts of the course, so you can only deal with what you have. By all means glance at other boat/board groups to ascertain what's going on and wether or not there may be more 'pressure' elsewhere, but fundamentally the mark is where you're going and you need to get there quicker than them, so just aim at it, as close as the wind will allow, on whichever tack that is - simples.

Er a quick qualifier to that, the only reason not to go directly to the mark is if there is significantly more pressure or direction on the horizon, likely to get you there quicker, that you should sail toward.

Edited by iGRF - 14 Feb 17 at 10:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 17 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

(but if you're already last.....).

You ain't looking for the extra 2-3% then...

Champions only hit corners for good strategic reasons (tide, geographic factors or weather fronts for instance) or if it's a one-off winner takes all race like the PoW and there is no other way back.

Apart from exceptional circumstances, it's about relentlessly doing the right thing; right strategy, right tactics, impeccable boat handling, keeping the boat moving optimally (not slamming a wave or stalling in a lull) and avoiding trouble. Some of us can do this some of the time, the top guys are always on it. But it's a complex sport; aberrations can happen - often the championship winning races are not the runaway bullets but the recoveries.

Unlike Mike H, I'm by no means a champion sailor. But if I get done-over at the start for instance, I just view it from then on as a pursuit race, decide that I can often beat the guys now ahead by further than they are away, sail the fleet (avoiding dog-fights for 12th) keep chipping away. Most also suffer performance-fade towards the end of a race - catching up is therefore not a straight-line time-function. 




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