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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ailing Club Affiliation
    Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 8:53am
RobT, what rule is he breaking? The rules require him to be a member of an affiliated club. He is. End of.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 9:56am
AIUI, the rules require an entrant to be a member of an affiliated club, OR a member of the National Authority. Maybe it's OR some other affiliated bodies too, e.g. services?
From memory, a class association might do?
So there is no absolute need  for one's club to be affiliated.
My guess is that many people are members of the RYA.
Perhaps the problem is entry form asking 'club?' rather than 'NA/Affiliated Body'?

There are also quite a lot of small (going on mickey-mouse) clubs who pay their affiliation to the RYA.
People used to form such clubs just to enter the Southport 24hr AIUI.

BTW, is it cheaper to affiliate to other national authorities?
MOBYC has a long tradition....
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 9:57am
Originally posted by RobT

What if I turned up with a Blaze with a sail from Morgan sails? Raced my I14 without corrector weights?



Or a Laser with a replica sail?

But come on let's get a life it's ONLY handicap racing and not to be taken seriously.


And until that attitude changes you're stuck with it.

As I said before and say again, until there is a Handicap racing association looking after our interests in this regard and setting new rules, challenges and systems, nothing's going to change.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 10:04am
Originally posted by JimC

RobT, what rule is he breaking? The rules require him to be a member of an affiliated club. He is. End of.


I imagine falsifying his entry information by stating the name of a club that doesn't exist and is not an affiliated club so technically he doesn't qualify to enter, nor be in the prizes.

If you want to be pedantic about it.

But then I was always told the rules were part of the sport and you have to be pedantic about them to protect the actual game itself.

So if you don't care about the details of the riders club, then don't ask for it.

But if you do ask for it then it is fair and reasonable to expect that the information given should be fact not fiction.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 10:29am
What does it take to form a non-affiliated club? What is fictional?

To be pedantic, there is very little in the rules about what's on the entry form. We have all sorts of stuff on our club's standard entry form because it is a standard form used for all sorts of events. Age in particular is often left blank or filled in with dubious accuracy and values. If a competitor filled in an incorrect field with the intention of taking a category prize for which they are not qualified that would be misconduct, otherwise who cares?

Its traditional to have the club sailors/boats are "representing" on the results and its nice to see, but its not AFAICS required by any rule. If the form said RYA affiliated club and Mike's Cirrus sailing club wasn't affiliated that would be misconduct I suppose, but I bet it doesn't.

I'm as pedantic as the next man if not more so when it comes to breaking the rules, but I do think its important to ensure a rule is actually being broken before lining the firing squad up. In past cases of illegal sails or false sail numbers a rule was clearly being broken.





Edited by JimC - 24 Nov 16 at 10:37am
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 10:50am

So .. In the spirit of 'throw a dog a bone'  (only over a mid-morning cup of tea mind you)

'Pedant SC' - 'Nosuch SC' - 'Not Cirrus SC' - 'Southern Softies SC' etc etc - go on indulge  yourselves as well.  Many simply leave the field blank in 'the box provided'.   As Jim says the only requirement is to be a member of an affiliated SC – you don’t have to wear your tribal shirt in public guys.  There is also a requirement to have adequate insurance cover which is imo much more important than what colour 'T' shirt anyone likes to wear - or the 'offence' real or contrived taken to it by others.  You formally confirm such things by signing a paper declaration or confirming your status as adhering to the rules via website.  

As for the Blaze distraction posed - not much to do with me these days except as an old git who now simply sails one for pleasure before senility sets in.   The design rights holders (& now makers) Hartley boats and the CA  (of which I am definitely not a committee member from memory) would I'm sure will be on that particular case if ever needed.

Life is taken far FAR too seriously by some imo ..... Now excuse me while I get on with my entry forms for all those future events .....  LOL



Edited by Cirrus - 24 Nov 16 at 10:52am
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zeon View Drop Down
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 11:34am
Must say I am with Jim c on this.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 12:30pm
I would guess part of the entry delcaration says you agree to be bound by the RRS etc.. and part of that says you must be a amember of the relevant NA (or member of an affiliated org).

So as long as Mike is a member of an affiliated club or personal RYA member then he can put what the hell he likes on the form.

If however he is not then his entry is invalid.

I could put RYA on my open entries as I am a personal member (being a DI I have to be for it to be valid) but I choose to put my home club on it. I quite like flying the flag.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 12:52pm
Unless of course he has told them he isn't by means of what he wrote on the form.

The Arrogance is that everyone is expected to know 'who I am'
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 16 at 1:58pm
Shall we start on people who aren't members of their boat's class association next?
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