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tgruitt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Dec 07 at 7:15pm
I see the moth bunch didn't really bother, I don't blame them really, especially with the handicap GWSC gave them....
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 07 at 7:56pm

Originally posted by tgruitt

I see the moth bunch didn't really bother, I don't blame them really, especially with the handicap GWSC gave them....

 

Eh; yes they did not bother.  The handicap is 60 points better than the Hayling Handicap.  Hayling sail them off 690 and they still win. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sprint Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 8:26am

166 boats entered, both races were sailed for all classes in a little more wind than was forecast and the results were on the Grafham website by 6pm.

Pretty good eh?

A little more wind would have been even better!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote aardvark_issues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by tgruitt

I see the moth bunch didn't really bother, I don't blame them really, especially with the handicap GWSC gave them....

 

Eh; yes they did not bother.  The handicap is 60 points better than the Hayling Handicap.  Hayling sail them off 690 and they still win. 



1, Simon is the best in the country, 2 he only sails when conditions suit him.

Across the fleet most of us struggle to sail to RS800 handicap so far! I'm sure our handicap is going to end up pretty fast, but just pre-emptively changing it based on one single persons results is a bit odd.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 10:36am
Originally posted by aardvark_issues

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by tgruitt

I see the moth bunch didn't really bother, I don't blame them really, especially with the handicap GWSC gave them....

 

Eh; yes they did not bother.  The handicap is 60 points better than the Hayling Handicap.  Hayling sail them off 690 and they still win. 



1, Simon is the best in the country, 2 he only sails when conditions suit him.

Across the fleet most of us struggle to sail to RS800 handicap so far! I'm sure our handicap is going to end up pretty fast, but just pre-emptively changing it based on one single persons results is a bit odd.

 

Not so.  It was changed as a result of performance at Grafham.  The Main driver was the DoE.

 

Ian Fosdyke won the Duke of Ed handicap event at Grafham in Sept.

He won it despite capsizing in EVERY race at least once.  He was racing on something like 850.  The club re-calculated the results on 750 and he woud still have been second.  It was a fairly windy event.  How can ANY boat be near the front of the race having capsized in every race.  I was sailing in the same regatta, did not capsize at all and Ian was in front of me in every race.  I was sailing on 690. 

As for sailing when the conditions suit.  Welcome to the cat sailing handicap problem.  We know we will do well when it's windy and know we'll be screwed when it's not.    As soon as a Moth is foiling, it should be be on 690 (IMO); when it's not foiling it's stuffed just like a Catamaran is before we get going.  Moths foil in about 7-8 kts, most races will be more than 7kts.  Thus I think 750 is more than fair (considering a Moth would still have come 2nd in the Grafham club champs having capsized at least once in every race).   



Edited by Scooby_simon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote giraffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 11:24am
A capsize may lose you 60 seconds.  You might win a handicap race by 2 minutes.  Therefore you can capsize and win.  If a capsize costs you 10 minutes and you still win that might be an issue.  Why cant a moth be allowed to win without having its handicap changed? It seems to be perfectly allowable for either the Fireball or Merlin Rocket!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 12:15pm

Originally posted by giraffe

A capsize may lose you 60 seconds.  You might win a handicap race by 2 minutes.  Therefore you can capsize and win.  If a capsize costs you 10 minutes and you still win that might be an issue.  Why cant a moth be allowed to win without having its handicap changed? It seems to be perfectly allowable for either the Fireball or Merlin Rocket!

It was under review anyway.  Some moth sailors are quite happy to claim the boat is fast as a Tornado, but then some moth sailors moan when the handicap drops.  Cannot have t both ways.  And the PY is always a compromise.  YOu never see Cats winning light wind races as they don't go in lignt winds.  The Moth won't either.  Both Cats and Moths PY's move towards their higher wind performance because of the way the PY formula deals with performance that is below the current PY. 



Edited by Scooby_simon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote BBSCFaithfull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 6:59pm
Glad to see that the 14s had good success. Even when they're in the slowest conditions for the class 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MRJP BUZZ 585 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Glad to see that the 14s had good success. Even when they're in the slowest conditions for the class 


Isn't it slow conditions for every class
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ratface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 07 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Glad to see that the 14s had good success. Even when they're in the slowest conditions for the class 

Isn't it slow conditions for every class


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