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Do Different View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 6:47pm
Well, men and women are without doubt different in their physicality BUT there is also arguably a greater difference between individuals of the same gender. 
Is there really that much difference between fit athletic men and women of similar weight and height?  Okay a small difference but in boats having a sensible righting moment relative to sail area the emphasis would move from brute strength towards more subtle skills. 
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 7:23pm
> Is there really that much difference between fit athletic men and women of similar weight and height?

I can think of a good number of classes where exceptional women sailors will sometimes win, but I can't think of any adult singlehanded classes where women regularly win in mixed events, so there's got to be a suspicion that something must be going on.

Edited by JimC - 19 Oct 16 at 8:15pm
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Is there really that much difference between fit athletic men and women of similar weight and height?


It speaks volumes that I have to even explain that, So no and we are in the 2nd decade of the 21st century and both the other sailing disciplines, windsurfing & kitesurfing don't differentiate, they basically use the same equipment.

So should boat racing, the fact it doesn't happen is just historic misogyny

Edited by iGRF - 19 Oct 16 at 7:35pm
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Do Different

Is there really that much difference between fit athletic men and women of similar weight and height?


It speaks volumes that I have to even explain that, So no and we are in the 2nd decade of the 21st century and both the other sailing disciplines, windsurfing & kitesurfing don't differentiate, they basically use the same equipment.

So should boat racing, the fact it doesn't happen is just historic misogyny

Have I misunderstood you there?  Do Kite people all use the same boards, foils and kites?  Isn't Bryony's sail smaller than Nick's?
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 10:11pm
Don't women use a smaller shotput, discus, lower hurdles (running 100m, not 110, because of generally shorter stride length). They do, with overlap, I believe, a different set of events in gymnastics. So why an exact match in sailing? The Laser and 49er are similar to the lighter weight equipment in athletics. Same idea, smaller sail. Perhaps scaling down the hull would be apt, but at what cost? As for the Finn, what men only athletic events are there? Hammer certainly was, still is?
But, if equality of medals is needed, it is an obvious one to go. Doesn't help that one small island has won every Olympics in it this century. Never mind that we were sh*t at Finn sailing for the best part of 50 years previous to that!
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 16 at 12:59am
Originally posted by Cirrus

Chris

Fully recognise you can find justifications for the circus ... of course there will always be arguments for as well.  However the Olympics for sailing does need to be questioned at many levels.  If you cannot imagine a world without sailing being there most would have no issue with that at all.  I'm questioning the high level of selective focus by our 'representatives' maybe to the detriment of focus on other critical areas.   If it stays fine but lets NOT go down the route of altering the sport just to provide that quarter an hour of dodgy TV coverage every 4 years that non-sailors barely understand or follow !  ... or pretend it is representative of sailing competition in the fullest sense.  Is it all worth it  and are we not capable of recognising or developing other global sailing championships as equel or superior ?   Tennis/Golf for example are there but it can hardly be argued that the circus is the pinnacle of those sports ... is there not a parallel somewhere in there ?



Actually I'm NOT justifying the circus, saying sailing should be changed for TV, or denigrating non-Olympic events. All I was saying is that there is no objective evidence that sailing as a whole outside of the Games has 'moved on' from the Olympics.

Perhaps one thing, though, is that we know that in the most popular equipment-intensive sport, the legends in the marquee events use essentially the same sort of kit that the weekend warrior uses. Looking inside the sport, at magazine and website comments for example, shows that its participants love the feeling that they can do pretty much what the pros do on the same sort of kit (although they do it slower). It's arguable that Olympic sailing provides that; we can look at Ainslie or Slingsby and see them doing pretty much what we can do that weekend. 

If sailing gets dumped from the Games and all that people see on the TV and net is foiling cats charging around, that aspect may become totally lost, and that could possibly hurt the sport.
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 16 at 1:02am
Originally posted by Fatboi

How is it harming grass routes!?!?!? Spending money on youth sailing, providing coaching, providing events, providing role models, the WYA subsidising boats!! 
With an emphasis on medals from Sport England, do you think those funding pots will be at the same level? 

The amount of youth and junior sailors is huge, lots have aims for the Olympics but the amount that dont is enormous! There are so many kids sailing because they love the sport and also because they want to do well and love to compete.

In my opinion the reason for a drop out is not because 'they havent made it', but because from when you go to uni through to your 30's you dont have any money for sailing!! The amount of people that go team racing or hop on a yacht down in the solent because it is cheaper is huge!!



Well, many people say that youth are encouraged to move away from club racing into squads, and then get burned out. Whether that's correct hasn't been proven, but on the other hand there's certainly no proof that concentrating on the elite increases the popularity of the sport.
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 16 at 1:17am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by Chris 249

[QUOTE=Fatboi]Well, for one it could come because national bodies seeking more cash would be driven to increase membership numbers and therefore increase membership dues, rather than being driven to increase gold medal numbers.

At least here, I wonder how much potential there is to increase membership. RYA membership is just over 100,000, compared to 125,000 for British Cycling. 

Interesting point, and it probably shows that I was wrong and that there is little room for growth.

The situation is similar down here; Cycling Australia has a comparatively small membership, probably because it's a very elitist organisation that charges outrageous fees and does nothing for the grass roots clubs. It's one of the reasons some of us are concerned about sailing following the same route.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 16 at 9:33am
Only 11,000 RYA members are listed as dinghy sailors;  a tiny number ...


http://www.rya.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/Pages/rya-statistics.aspx




Edited by 2547 - 20 Oct 16 at 9:34am
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 16 at 10:11am
One of the issues that rather complicates this discussion is the ease at which a success in attracting a Youth fleet/activity is confused with the wider topic of 'mainstream' dinghy racing. I touched on this back in March with the 'Silver Dream Racer' article, where, if I recall, I pointed out that if the authorities that 'manage' our sport are not careful, in the future there won't be the wide spread, easily accessible dinghy racing that we can enjoy today. One could go so far as to say that the RYA focus on Yoof is on a par with their deliberate focus on Olympic glory (indeed, one is seen as the precursor to the other).
What needs nurturing now is the sport as is; yes, mainly white, some could even say middle aged and middle class- but these are the people who keep sailing clubs around the country running on a week by week basis, not to mention the class structure of the boats we sail. That, to me at least, is what the term 'grassroots' implies. Only time will tell if the yoof of today will become the club and class stalwarts of tomorrow!

And as for you Rupert - shame on you? Sh*t at Finn sailing? In Chris Law we had one of the youngest winners of the Gold Cup and as good a prospect for a medal in 1980 as we were ever likely to get. That he didn't get the chance for his Olympic glory is yet another shameful failing to be laid at the door of the RYA!
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