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    Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 9:04am
And where would the money for this come from?
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 7:55am
"Oh yes, all your questions about why sailing is in the Games, and the effect of leaving, are very valid. In the long run it could be a good thing if sailing wasn't there. National bodies in some nations may lose their funding but if that means they have to earn it by catering for the grass roots that could actually be a good thing for the sport."

Probably not quite proper to extract a section from a post but  Thumbs Up
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 16 at 12:13am
I think the problem replacing the Star was that keelboat classes just don't seem to get global spread. There seem to be North American classes, European Classes, British Commonwealth classes, but nothing with genuine 5 continents distribution. So anything trying to replace the Star would have at least two continent's delegates saying "XYZ? Never heard of it. May as well keep the coffin in."
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 11:32pm
.... as noted earlier there seems to be no reason to think that Olympic dinghy ailing is lagging and the rest of the sport "has moved on"

At the very least hightly debatable .... and if 'outside' it would not matter at all.  Those disciplines that were appealing, older or newer, would prevail and prosper - not because some old crusties in power supported a particular model cos 'that is what they used when they were young themselves'.  Tell me how many times did the Star need the wooden stake through the heart before it was 'moved on' ?  .....and we can anticipate similar lobbying and politics with the Finn emerging in the future.   World championships simply  don't have to be 'second best' to the 5 ring circus ... unless 'they' make it thus and tell the rest of us plebs it surely is ....


Edited by Cirrus - 18 Oct 16 at 11:34pm
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

 

Chris et al

The issue is not necessarily which particular classes should be involved at the Olympics, the politics of selection (retention?) being just a symptom of possibly a different problem or malaise - it is more one of what exactly is the point of sailing in the Olympics ?  Prestige ?  Promotion of the sport ?  Income streams for the 'organisers' ? .....Most disciplines, let along individual classes or types, are not involved anyway so why on earth is there such emphasis on it.   'Dinghy' sailing is just one branch and participation is very possibly not proportionally dominant by sheer numbers involved either.

Few question involvement in the Olympics .... but perhaps they should at a more basic level.  Some sports do not get involved, others see it as a bit of a side-show.

You mention elimination by 'age' of discipline from involvement -  Sailing is one of the few equipment based disciplines so it is reasonable to assume some upgrading.  On the other hand unless Homo Sapiens 2.0 is released some  time soon I suspect running along the current lines is fairly safe for now. .....  Of course drug 'enhanced' competitors will and already have pushed these boundaries a tad !  


Oh yes, all your questions about why sailing is in the Games, and the effect of leaving, are very valid. In the long run it could be a good thing if sailing wasn't there. National bodies in some nations may lose their funding but if that means they have to earn it by catering for the grass roots that could actually be a good thing for the sport.

Whether it's reasonable to assume some upgrading of kit is a complex question, isn't it? The other equipment-based disciplines often have comparatively little or no "upgrading" in terms of basic design and rules. To have an informed discussion we'd have to find some way of comparing and quantifying what "upgrading" is, how fast it occurs, and what happens to the sports that upgrade the fastest and the slowest. Every time I quantify the Olympic equipment-based sports, it seems that sailing has upgraded more than most over recent years, and also over the long term. It doesn't seem to have been a formula for success. 

However, as noted earlier there seems to be no reason to think that Olympic dinghy ailing is lagging and the rest of the sport "has moved on". 



Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Oct 16 at 10:51pm
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by GarethT

It would probably help if the IKA hadn't p!ssed of a lot of potential allies by trying to lie their way to Rio.

The IKA is a manufactured body foisted upon us by bloody sailors, we have no desire to be part of ISAF/World sailing, have every board have to pay $6 to have a label on it and the price of kiting increased, small manufacturers crippled and backroom deals involving large brown envelopes deciding who makes the kit we use.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter


Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Bootscooter


Kite surfing doesn't have a 'sail', or a 'hull'.


Would it help if it were called Spinnaker board riding?

Sorry folks, it's accessible, low cost has better take up by girls and worldwide and it's about time Grafham Water permitted access and watched its membership double.

Instead of doing what you lot did to windsurfing and scorned, banned, ignored and forced it to fend for itself, those clubs with bigger water would do well to embrace new pusuits.

Don't get me wrong Grumpf, I think it has the potential to be a fantastic sport, but one in it's own right, not tagged on to sailing for convenience and at it's expense.  As I said, surfing is going to be included, but is not classes as a canoe sport, BMX was included, I believe, not at the expense of track cycling (happy to be corrected).


And those of us that could make a difference fought tooth and nail to keep the damned RYA & IYRU/ISAF/World Sailing b'stards at bay, but they conned the kiting speed sailors into your corrupt world by refusing to recognise their world record breaking runs and the IKA was adopted and now we have battles three or four organisations vying for supremacy, riders struggling to understand who's in control and corruption everywhere. Typical sailing in other words. The sooner sailing is out of the Olympics the better imv.
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

It bears repeating .... why all the fuss about the Olymic bit ?      There is plenty of vibrant life outside and our sport hardly needs the 5-ring circus.  If it served to attract more into sailing there might be a case but the 'coverage' is token, expensive, difficult and generally very poor.   Is there any measurable and sustained impact on participation ? 

It hardly scratches the surface of competitive sailing in all its different forms and arguably artificially maintains a focus  on a very small sample of sometimes over priced, atypical but politically well connected classes when the rest of the sailing world really has moved on ... in some instances by many decades. 

WF might well like the association for all sorts of reasons ... but does the circus  (or even WF in its current form for that matter)  really cut it  ?  


Yep, the Olympics gets less inspirational with each passing occurrence........anyway, most of them have asthma (allegedly).

Sport at the lower Sunday afternoon level is much more important IMO. Encouraging kids to kick around on a piece of scrap ground is much more beneficial to nation and individual. If they still kick a ball around the same scrap of ground when they're 40 then that's fantastic.

Edited by transient - 18 Oct 16 at 9:51pm
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by rogerd

Originally posted by gbr940

...you need a team boat because not all sailing is done in dinghies either solo or duo! The Olympics needs to be representative to the other 60 odd percent of the sailing world which requires crews!!!


You don't see tandem racing in the Olympics. In fact why isn't there tandem racing?


 it is in the paras  though  - for  competitors with serious sight impairment  -  sighted  front person and  vision impaired person as stoker 
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 16 at 3:25pm
 

Chris et al

The issue is not necessarily which particular classes should be involved at the Olympics, the politics of selection (retention?) being just a symptom of possibly a different problem or malaise - it is more one of what exactly is the point of sailing in the Olympics ?  Prestige ?  Promotion of the sport ?  Income streams for the 'organisers' ? .....Most disciplines, let along individual classes or types, are not involved anyway so why on earth is there such emphasis on it.   'Dinghy' sailing is just one branch and participation is very possibly not proportionally dominant by sheer numbers involved either.

Few question involvement in the Olympics .... but perhaps they should at a more basic level.  Some sports do not get involved, others see it as a bit of a side-show.

You mention elimination by 'age' of discipline from involvement -  Sailing is one of the few equipment based disciplines so it is reasonable to assume some upgrading.  On the other hand unless Homo Sapiens 2.0 is released some  time soon I suspect running along the current lines is fairly safe for now. .....  Of course drug 'enhanced' competitors will and already have pushed these boundaries a tad !  



Edited by Cirrus - 18 Oct 16 at 3:26pm
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