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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Mar 13
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Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Expensive Sports...
    Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 2:14pm
Jeez, I wish I had £5k to spend on sailing!!
I started in the sport the old fashioned way, went down to my local club and crewed for anyone who needed someone in the front of an Enterprise. First time we went out i wore a pari of shorts, t-shirt and an old pair of trainers. So first year of dinghy sailing cost me the club membership, a few hundred. I then did my L1 and L2 so I could take club boats out and progressed from there. Ten years later I still predominantly crew and am not that bad at it. I have spent some time on the tiller, had a Laser for a bit. Done 4 National Championships and done quite well considering I hadn't sailed a dinghy before I was 24. 
In that first year I must have crewed for at least a dozen different very competent helms all very different not just in the way that they sailed but how they engaged with a new crew (and I think this is also very important. The range went from sit there pull that in tight and sit still to feeling part of a team, a helm asking to look for wind, offer tactical suggestion (and explaining why I was wrong), I learnt the most from the latter, and enjoyed it much much more. Feeling part of something is very important. If there was just the first type of helm, I think I would have felt a bit disenfranchised and left out had I not been so keen on sailing (and probably given up)

I am willing to jump in a boat and crew for anyone whether they be beginner or seasoned vetran and always encourage crew swapping on club/fleet days

Its the best way to learn rather than doing courses
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

 

Seems to me an hour's drive each way would be the kiss of death.

indeed .... chuck in the windguru validation rule, the web cam second opinion rule and the hangovers and yep, I don't bother going more than I ought to admit.... especially not for handicap racing with separated starts - a policy which flushed the only five minutes of actual proper racing down the toilet.    
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Oct 06
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by JimC

Thing is the big clubs are the most expensive, and so are the big classes. Add to that increased travel time to fewer clubs and you're pushing an awful lot of people out of the sport.

I'm not sure I agree - I'm only advocating hoovering up and abolishing the bit classes.  Also if you look at the number of clubs in some areas you wouldn't really be increasing travel time...

Where I am for example there are about 10 within a 5 mile radius!

Interestingly, at the welsh harp where I used to sail they've got what I think is a very effective system - there are only certain approved classes that can use the lake (GP14s, Merlins, Lasers) and although there are multiple clubs (each club vaguely "owns" some of the classes), they get great turnouts, good racing and a really strong stream of beginners coming through.

In the laser fleet there are gold, silver and bronze fleets racing, with individual prizes and rankings, so that the lessor/newer sailors have still got something to fight for which keeps them interested and progressing.


Edited by bustinben - 23 Sep 16 at 3:21pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 3:55pm
I sail one of the more recent 'lost classes' the Topper Spice. It is the only boat I'm aware of that meets all my criteria (assy kite, twin wires, forgiving enough to sail without regular training sessions and cheap, £800 in the case of the Spice). Ok maybe I'm in a minority amongst dinghy sailors but I like my 'unusual' boat and I reckon I've spent less than £2.5k on sailing since then. That's including the boat, new road base, used sails, repairs, spares, dinghy specific sailing kit, entry fees and a years club subs ('cos I only joined a club back home last year, my holiday club doesn't have premises or subs just race entry fees).
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Aug 04
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 4:15pm
Sam, you are not unusual at all. Most of the boats I've owned and raced would be banned by the "too many classes" brigade. I'm not sure of any situation where less choice has been a good thing.

Great news, my supermarket has been closed, because there was another one only 30 minutes drive away. Now I can shop with more people! Oh good, they only have 3 brands of breakfast cereal on the shelf. No shreddies for me to eat, but I can buy the same brand as my neighbours now.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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bustinben View Drop Down
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Sam, you are not unusual at all. Most of the boats I've owned and raced would be banned by the "too many classes" brigade. I'm not sure of any situation where less choice has been a good thing.

Great news, my supermarket has been closed, because there was another one only 30 minutes drive away. Now I can shop with more people! Oh good, they only have 3 brands of breakfast cereal on the shelf. No shreddies for me to eat, but I can buy the same brand as my neighbours now.

Let's be honest though, this analogy is terrible  LOL  where to even start...

How about this... it's all about cereal eating competitions... and you're the only one with shreddies so you have to sit in a corner on your own.


Edited by bustinben - 23 Sep 16 at 4:21pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 May 04
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by bustinben

it's all about cereal eating competitions... and you're the only one with shreddies

Tell me I've got to eat cornflakes and I'll stay at home.

As I've said before its just b******s that people like class racing. They feel they should say they do, but the actions don't match the words. If it were true then it would be really hard to introduce new classes, and really easy to keep a fleet going at a club. But as anyone who's tried will tell you the really hard bit is to keep a fleet together once formed.

Yes back in the 70s many clubs had only approved classes, and they almost all have handicap fleets now. Why? because people would rather not sail at all than sail a boat they don't like, and once the boom was over (in those days many clubs even had waiting lists!) the approved fleet thing cost too many subscriptions.

Edited by JimC - 23 Sep 16 at 4:31pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by bustinben



Originally posted by Rupert

Sam, you are not unusual at all. Most of the boats I've owned and raced would be banned by the "too many classes" brigade. I'm not sure of any situation where less choice has been a good thing.
<br style="-webkit-user-: text;">
<br style="-webkit-user-: text;">Great news, my supermarket has been closed, because there was another one only 30 minutes drive away. Now I can shop with more people! Oh good, they only have 3 brands of breakfast cereal on the shelf. No shreddies for me to eat, but I can buy the same brand as my neighbours now.

<div style="-webkit-user-: text;"><br style="-webkit-user-: text;"><div style="-webkit-user-: text;">Let's be honest though, this analogy is terrible  LOL  where to even start...<div style="-webkit-user-: text;"><div style="-webkit-user-: text;">How about this... it's all about cereal eating competitions... and you're the only one with shreddies so you have to sit in a corner on your own.


Maybe I can go to a small shreddies eating contest, and not have to join in with cornflake eaters at all, who take it much to seriously, and eat something which tastes like cardboard? Or maybe it is a cereal eating contest where you can choose the cereal which appeals most?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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transient View Drop Down
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Really should get out more


Joined: 21 Aug 12
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 5:05pm
Anybody still sailing with a bar towel stitched to their a*se? or maybe someone has recently fashioned a new rudder out of an old sh** house door?  Wink

Sailing really does need to catch up. Folk want the latest iphone and strawberries at Christmas these days. They also don't want to learn the hard way. Very sad but true.

My hypothetical couple that maybe would have spent 5K getting into the sport have just had a good look around and walked away.

This may be a mutually agreeable situation at the time but where does that leave the future of sailing clubs.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 16 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

I really HATE nannying by government or national governing bodies, but when discussing this the other night someone suggested legislation might be the only way...

.. and you will presumably make sure the 'trains running on time' as well before too long....  And the new order 'National' classes will be just that .. The ... only permitted classes.  Can we all have a distinctive uniform as well or at least lapel pin or armband ?   Can't wait .... Why not work the proposals up into a concise '5 year' plan to start with ?  .... Confused


now now, be kind, otherwise I might start thinking about outlawing new classes not from the two state-approved manufacturers Wink

... I think you'll find I have said nothing about reducing the number of classes, just the number of small clubs into larger ones.  I don't buy the argument they will neccessarily be more expensive and class popularity is easily taken care of by market forces.  Unfortunately, with 30+ years dinghy sailing here and abroad, I think its likely die-hards would carry on going to 'their club' till they die, even if there was just 5-10 of them.
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