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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Dec 08
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Expensive Sports...
    Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

...

for me it's simply a matter of time... a friend and I talked about buying a fireball for club racing on a Wednesday night.  Nice in theory, but then a quick look at calendars and we could have both made a max of 5 of them all year due to work and pre-existing / priority family holidays.... sorry, but that's just not enough of a return on investment.... We came to the conclusion that in reality, we'd be better off sharing a Laser- a suggestion that neither of us have rushed to take to fruition.  


Two friends of mine co-own an RS800. They both get guest crews in to sail it, and sail it together a few times a year.
Some clubs are not helpful with this kind of arrangement, only allowing guest crews for say 3 races.
With keelboats, it's quite common for syndicates to own boats and get crew from a wide circle of people. Sometimes points in the series are just for the boat, which is handy when your helm is still on the M25 when the gun goes...
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by gordon1277


So anybody want to have a go at Lee on Solent for the Autumn? ideally not to heavy but strong enough to get the kite up and down. Happy to teach from base level but would prefer a little experience.
Saturday afternoons at 2.30 changing to 2pm when the clocks change.

To a degree you're all proving my point - the examples above all seem to want a ready trained sailor to crew a complex trap and/or kite boat. Go to just a main and jib and the pool of potential crews grows a huge amount. You have to specifically invite people though, to get new people through the door. Just randomly asking rarely seems to bring results.

The point relating to the original thread - conflating boat ownership and going sailing as one and the same  is the mistake. Crewing is cheap as chips, boat ownership less so...
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Mar 12
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Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 4:47pm
It did cross my mind that an Ent might suit my (ir)regular crew and I better then the Spice but then I decided I didn't want to go back to something that took 10 mins to empty after the inevitable capsize. I realised this year that I'm still quite a good sailor on my own and a regular crew and the chance to practice together is probably not going to happen so this sport is just about to get twice as expensive  Wink

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 21 Sep 16 at 4:47pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by DiscoBall

To a degree you're all proving my point - the examples above all seem to want...

Actually I prefer to sail as forward hand.
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by DiscoBall

To a degree you're all proving my point - the examples above all seem to want...

Actually I prefer to sail as forward hand.

Fair enough, but that's certainly reducing the pool of potential team-mates.
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by DiscoBall


To a degree you're all proving my point - the examples above all seem to want a ready trained sailor to crew a complex trap and/or kite boat. Go to just a main and jib and the pool of potential crews grows a huge amount. You have to specifically invite people though, to get new people through the door. Just randomly asking rarely seems to bring results.
The point relating to the original thread - conflating boat ownership and going sailing as one and the same  is the mistake. Crewing is cheap as chips, boat ownership less so...


Very much the reason behind why I bought an Albacore - easy to get even inexperienced crews to join in. Surprisingly some of the better sailors seem to really enjoy the jib and jib stick combo.
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blueboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 512 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:13am
Sorry but if the answer is that I should sail an Enterprise or an Albacore, the wrong question is being asked. I've zero interest in doing that and yes I have sailed Ents enough to know that.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 7:51am
The reason I bought the 400 is we have a fleet at the club, plus the other option is the 2000 which does seem to work for novices as they are often taught to sail in them or similar(sorry I dont like the 2000 so I had no choice). But RYA training seems to exclude spinnakers and crewing skills in general.
I still think the RYA should create a Dinghy crews course with level 1 being rigging jib and learning about what angles when balance , tell tales etc.
level 2 asyemetric spinnaker rigging and the use of.
level 3 symetric spinnaker
At a club like Lee with big sea courses not having a spinnaker in a two man boat would be daft, I agree completely different on a smaller venue.
Gordon
Lossc
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by blueboy

Sorry but if the answer is that I should sail an Enterprise or an Albacore, the wrong question is being asked. I've zero interest in doing that and yes I have sailed Ents enough to know that.

Not sure anyone is going to force you, I purely plucked the Ent out as an example of a simple boat.

Given how often sailing's decline is discussed on here it's curious that very few are willing in any way to adjust their own sailing in a way that might grow the sport. Easier to hope that external things such as TV coverage or ever faster boats will somehow solve it, or that the blame lies with those non-sailors being 'too lazy' (quite a common line of reasoning in various dying activities - a bit like a crap restaurant blaming its absent customers rather than the food...  Smile ).

Crewing solves the main barrier - the perception that sailing in any form is expensive - but it's not going to get very far unless we sail boats that are accessible for a broad spectrum of crews.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Dec 14
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 16 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by turnturtle

...

for me it's simply a matter of time... a friend and I talked about buying a fireball for club racing on a Wednesday night.  Nice in theory, but then a quick look at calendars and we could have both made a max of 5 of them all year due to work and pre-existing / priority family holidays.... sorry, but that's just not enough of a return on investment.... We came to the conclusion that in reality, we'd be better off sharing a Laser- a suggestion that neither of us have rushed to take to fruition.  


Two friends of mine co-own an RS800. They both get guest crews in to sail it, and sail it together a few times a year.
Some clubs are not helpful with this kind of arrangement, only allowing guest crews for say 3 races.
With keelboats, it's quite common for syndicates to own boats and get crew from a wide circle of people. Sometimes points in the series are just for the boat, which is handy when your helm is still on the M25 when the gun goes...

that might work with the Fireball tbh.... not sure either of us are too keen on stepping back in an 800 again.  
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