In or Out?

I think the whole debate has shown how typically lacking in confidence we are as a nation, sometimes it doesn't do any harm to remember our language is used all over the world for communication in business, flight and navigation, we pretty much invented the modern industrial world, we invent stuff all the time, we are respected in many places for our reasonable approach to matters (with the exception of oil based agressive exploration). To suggest we cannot continue to trade with either Europe or the rest of the world is ridiculously stupid or that somehow, by leaving this 'club' we will be considerably worse off, it's just not true.

To simplify the debate it seems to me more a row between the haves and have nots, the haves worried they might lose something and the have nots almost carrying on a very British Revolution to punish the establishment and the ruling elite for their arrogance, which to my mind is overdue.

Lying, cheating, fixing, lacking in honour and credibility the establishment deserve a shock, both here and in Europe, you cannot blame the leavers for reacting to the ludicrous claims the remainers have been coming out with. For sure there is an uncertain future, that's one thing you can be certain of, in or out there are real problems ahead, better in my mind that we don't kid ourselves there is anyone out there duty bound to help us, just as it's better not kidding ourselves being part of this single market in anyway stacks things in our favour, it doesn't, never has and never will, we remain an open trader whereas France, Germany, Holland all come with their local protectionist activities always have and I doubt they'll ever change so best to approach the matter knowing rather than in some cloud cuckoo land that we're dealing on a level playing field.



Edited by iGRF - 16 Jun 16 at 10:00am

My already great contempt for those who feel they have the right to govern us has increased by magnitudes over the course of this negative, scaremongering wasteful campaign, whatever the side.

Originally posted by Daniel Holman Originally posted by Peaky With intelligent people on both sides of the argument, my view is that there must be pro's and cons either way. Whilst there will always be winners and losers, the overall state of the nation will remain largely unchanged whatever the outcome. Therefore I shall leave it to others to decide and whinge whatever the outcome when utopia fails to materialise. This is exactly how I think. Maybe a Naval Arch sensibility / pragmatism?

Or cynicism and scepticism rolled into one?

Originally posted by Presuming Ed I don't think in is utopia now. The world is a complex place.  I just think the baseless promises of leave are bollox. We're going to end up like Norway, paying more, accepting more migrants and with less influence than we have now. Sigh.

But we won't have the 850 Billion dollar sovereign wealth fund that makes Norway stack up and be a nice place to live. As long as you are getting paid like a Norwegian.

I don't think in is utopia now. The world is a complex place.  I just think the baseless promises of leave are bollox. We're going to end up like Norway, paying more, accepting more migrants and with less influence than we have now. Sigh.