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Thunder ang lightning

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    Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 9:29am
At my club we 100% abandon racing/get boats off water asap if we see or hear thunder and lightning. I have no idea of the physics of lightning around a sailing dinghy but I'm nowhere near brave enough to want to get a practical example !
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 9:56am
My take on the RRS4 thing is that is stands absolutely, but my opinion is legally worthless, as, I suspect, is that of other posters.

However the object of running club racing is to run a fair competition. It will not be a fair competition if you start or continue races in conditions which are too extreme, whether too light, too windy, too much current, competitors are unwilling to launch or continue for safety reasons, and probably other factors too...

I'm not a physicist either, but I suspect that competitors are no safer standing by a boat on the bank than they are in a boat on the water.

Edited by JimC - 14 Jun 16 at 10:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 10:31am
Originally posted by JimC

My take on the RRS4 thing is that is stands absolutely

I very much agree with Jim for once.
I would hope that RRS4 still stands because if it doesn't then how long before one of us doing our rostered club duty is the subject of a law suit?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote James Bell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 10:31am
I looked into this a number of years ago, and all I could find was a report of a Laser in Australia being hit by lightning. The helm was blown well clear of the boat, but survived unharmed. 

Someone once suggested that if there was a thunderstorm directly overhead, you may be better off capsizing the boat (to reduce height) and sitting on the centerboard until the storm has passed. 

On a related note, are there any club buildings fitted with lightning protection? Many are in exposed locations with tall flag masts. There's a statistic published for churches in the UK, which states the probability of any church in the UK being hit by lightning is one in 500 (link).


Edited by James Bell - 14 Jun 16 at 10:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote James Bell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 10:48am
Just found another one from Australia:
http://www.thedailysail.com/dinghy/10/25616/laser-sailor-gets-struck-by-lightning

"Gosford sailor Chris Meech is recovering in Gosford Hospital after his Laser dinghy was literally blown apart by a bolt of lightning while he was sailing on Brisbane Waters on Saturday. "
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 10:51am
In my experience up here in the Peaks any thunder and lightning is usually in the company of fearsome wind that requires a certain amount of concentration. It is hard to concentrate in lashing rain and exploding heavens. If I see a big blue black cloud coming over the hill I am in for my tea!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 11:35am
Originally posted by James Bell

Someone once suggested that if there was a thunderstorm directly overhead, you may be better off capsizing the boat (to reduce height) and sitting on the centerboard until the storm has passed. 

I have grave doubts about this.

For something official, suggest we read this.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/guide/weather/severe-weather-advice/lightning

or in more detail

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/i/r/Fact_sheet_No._2.pdf

What I have learned, from doing a bit of reading, is that the danger radius round storms is much wider than I had assumed. It seems that a minority of lightning bolts are from the top of the storm, not the bottom, and these can reach ground over a very wide radius - even some miles from the cloud.

Think I'm going to be much more wary in future.

Edited by JimC - 14 Jun 16 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote James Bell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 12:02pm
The Met Office advice and fact sheets are good, which I've seen before. 

Yes, that's a little known fact that lightning can strike a miles away from the actual storm, hence the expression 'a bolt from the blue': the sky can appear clear (a few miles from the storm) and lightning can still strike!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blueboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by JimC

My take on the RRS4 thing is that is stands absolutely, but my opinion is legally worthless, as, I suspect, is that of other posters. 


Negotiating and interpreting contracts is part of my day job.

RRS4 is a contract term. When you race you contract with the organising authority and agreeing to abide by RRS is part of the contract. That's been established in court (when one large expensive yacht hit another).

In UK law contract terms that attempt to exclude negligence are unenforceable. So if a club's conduct in running a race were found to be negligent, RRS4 is void.

Negligence, roughly speaking, is falling below a reasonable standard of care. What's reasonable? That's for a court to decide. What's reasonable for ocean racers isn't reasonable for Optimists. What's certain is that RRS4 doesn't absolve clubs of the need to exercise reasonable care in running racing. That's why RORC postponed a Fastnet start for 24 hours.

Sorry if that's unwelcome news. But if a club isn't demonstrably performing risk assessment before running racing, someone is going to have an uncomfortable time if they ever need to defend their conduct in court. 


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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 16 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by James Bell

Just found another one from Australia:
http://www.thedailysail.com/dinghy/10/25616/laser-sailor-gets-struck-by-lightning

"Gosford sailor Chris Meech is recovering in Gosford Hospital after his Laser dinghy was literally blown apart by a bolt of lightning while he was sailing on Brisbane Waters on Saturday. "

Yes, but Aussie Laser sailors called Chris are superhuman. A normal person would have been reduced to cinders. Not that I'm biased or anything....

Actually, Meechie is a fine bloke and I'm very glad he got out of that OK. Like me, at the end of a masters regatta when he's spent a few days without shaving he looks as if he's been hit by a lightning bolt, so I can understand why the thundercloud chose him.




Edited by Chris 249 - 14 Jun 16 at 12:35pm
sailcraftblog.wordpress.com

The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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