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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spinnaker Halyards
    Posted: 25 May 16 at 10:57pm
Does pre-stretched 8 plait still offer the best compromise between grip, wear, stretch, ability to hold knots and cost?

The stretch factor can obviously be improved by moving to a dyneema cored rope, but is the trade off worth it?

Any recommendations?
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pompeysailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 9:43am
I would suggest it depends on what boat your sailing / depends on the loads the kite has. e.g a Mirror it would be fine, but for a 49er probably not.
What boat is it for?
Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145
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Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:12am
There is certainly a school of thought that a little stretch in the spinnaker halyard is a good thing, it can be helpful with the shock loadings that occur.
Although personally a rope that doesn't twist and tie itself into knots is the most important thing, and I've yet to find the perfect solution, I'd be interested to hear other opinions too.
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:26am
Something like excel racing is perfect - i use a 4mm on my Musto Skiff and its tapered from the head to almost the cleat.

Trick with avoiding the twisting is a good guiding block aft and also never coil it.  Once you get a new halyard, straighten it carefully and get all twists out then when travelling never coil it - take the end and run it up and down the mast instead and just tie end off
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:37am
I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks, which multiplies up.
We have quite small blocks, we use a shiny plaited rope of about 3.5mm. I think it has a very thin parallel core, but it's basically 8 plait pre-stretch.
The proper bimble would be thin dyneema from head to cleat and something flexible for the rest.
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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 11:32am
A bit like Roger, I'm not convinced there is a perfect solution, but am interested in other people's conclusions.

The boat in question is a 200 and I reckon we're looking at a 5m max length between spinnaker and cleat.

If we say 2% stretch when fully loaded in big gust that could be as much as 10cm movement of the spinnaker head, although probably only 5cm under shock loading.  A dyneema equivalent could reduce this to 1-2cm movement theoretically.

Is the stretch actually a good thing though?  Lost energy, but takes some of the shock loading away so gives a tad more reaction time.  All very theoretical though and not sure anyone would notice the difference in practice.
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jaydub View Drop Down
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Posts: 267 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jaydub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 11:45am
Originally posted by RS400atC

I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks, which multiplies up.
We have quite small blocks, we use a shiny plaited rope of about 3.5mm. I think it has a very thin parallel core, but it's basically 8 plait pre-stretch.
The proper bimble would be thin dyneema from head to cleat and something flexible for the rest.
I'm studiously ignoring the charms of Excel Racing if I go for the dyneema option.  Tough as old boots in terms of wear, but a bit stiff for my liking and a bit harsh for madam's hands perhaps!

if I go for dyneema, I was thinking of something softer, maybe 4mm Robline dinghy control line.

Anyone found a solution for stopping the dyneema core poking out of the outer cover?
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 12:20pm
The movement does add up to some chafe over the years, but the dyneema will just have the chafe over a smaller length?
I just go for black string from a certain chandler's bargain pile.
Black ought to have best UV resistance?
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Posts: 203 		Post Options Post Options   Quote a_dowley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 1:23pm
We get this question all the time at Dinghy Rope.

There are 3 real choices for halyards:
  • 8 plait pre stretched - good budget rope and as suggested great on a Mirror or small boat but not good on the boats with larger loads
  • Rope with dyneema core and polyester cover - most popular choice as it can be tapered or ran as it is
  • Hollow braid rope such as Maffioli Swiftcord - strength is within the cover, can't be tapered but you can also stitch a smaller diameter 12 strand dyneema rope into it to create the taper
Neptune - do you not find the Excel Racing too hard wearing? It's burnt some holes in our previous kites on our catamaran.

We find the Kingfisher/Maffioli Evo Race with dyneema core a bit softer and just as good. I linked to a 5mm here as an example but it can also be purchased in 4mm.

Cheers
Andrew


Edited by a_dowley - 26 May 16 at 1:25pm
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piglet View Drop Down
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Posts: 514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote piglet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 16 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks,

Interesting, that's not been my experience.
We sail a 200 and use 4mm Kingfisher Evo race. The Evo seems to come in a tad thinner than the Marlow, which helps free running.
One thing I 'discovered' with the 200 was to keep the chute mouth in good condition. When we bought the boat the kite had loads of tiny holes and the chute had rope channels. I filled the rope channels and covered that bit with Hmdpe anti wear tape. Our new kite has no holes at all.
Didn't bother tapering the halyard, couldn't see the point.
We also have 6mm Evo race sheets which are more like 5.5mm.
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