Dinghy development: Spinnaker Halyards

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Spinnaker Halyards

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12403
Printed Date: 07 Jul 25 at 7:09pm
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Topic: Spinnaker Halyards

Posted By: jaydub
Subject: Spinnaker Halyards
Date Posted: 25 May 16 at 10:57pm

Does pre-stretched 8 plait still offer the best compromise between grip, wear, stretch, ability to hold knots and cost?

The stretch factor can obviously be improved by moving to a dyneema cored rope, but is the trade off worth it?

Any recommendations?

Replies:

Posted By: pompeysailor
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 9:43am

I would suggest it depends on what boat your sailing / depends on the loads the kite has. e.g a Mirror it would be fine, but for a 49er probably not.
What boat is it for?

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Formerly - OK 2145 Phantom 1437, Blaze 819, Fireball 14668, Mirror 54145

Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:12am

There is certainly a school of thought that a little stretch in the spinnaker halyard is a good thing, it can be helpful with the shock loadings that occur.
Although personally a rope that doesn't twist and tie itself into knots is the most important thing, and I've yet to find the perfect solution, I'd be interested to hear other opinions too.

Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:26am

Something like excel racing is perfect - i use a 4mm on my Musto Skiff and its tapered from the head to almost the cleat.

Trick with avoiding the twisting is a good guiding block aft and also never coil it. Once you get a new halyard, straighten it carefully and get all twists out then when travelling never coil it - take the end and run it up and down the mast instead and just tie end off

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Musto Skiff and Solo sailor

Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 10:37am

I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks, which multiplies up.
We have quite small blocks, we use a shiny plaited rope of about 3.5mm. I think it has a very thin parallel core, but it's basically 8 plait pre-stretch.
The proper bimble would be thin dyneema from head to cleat and something flexible for the rest.

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 11:32am

A bit like Roger, I'm not convinced there is a perfect solution, but am interested in other people's conclusions.

The boat in question is a 200 and I reckon we're looking at a 5m max length between spinnaker and cleat.

If we say 2% stretch when fully loaded in big gust that could be as much as 10cm movement of the spinnaker head, although probably only 5cm under shock loading. A dyneema equivalent could reduce this to 1-2cm movement theoretically.

Is the stretch actually a good thing though? Lost energy, but takes some of the shock loading away so gives a tad more reaction time. All very theoretical though and not sure anyone would notice the difference in practice.

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 11:45am

Originally posted by RS400atC

I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks, which multiplies up.
We have quite small blocks, we use a shiny plaited rope of about 3.5mm. I think it has a very thin parallel core, but it's basically 8 plait pre-stretch.
The proper bimble would be thin dyneema from head to cleat and something flexible for the rest.

I'm studiously ignoring the charms of Excel Racing if I go for the dyneema option. Tough as old boots in terms of wear, but a bit stiff for my liking and a bit harsh for madam's hands perhaps!

if I go for dyneema, I was thinking of something softer, maybe 4mm Robline dinghy control line.

Anyone found a solution for stopping the dyneema core poking out of the outer cover?

Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 12:20pm

The movement does add up to some chafe over the years, but the dyneema will just have the chafe over a smaller length?
I just go for black string from a certain chandler's bargain pile.
Black ought to have best UV resistance?

Posted By: a_dowley
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 1:23pm

We get this question all the time at Dinghy Rope.

There are 3 real choices for halyards:

8 plait pre stretched - good budget rope and as suggested great on a Mirror or small boat but not good on the boats with larger loads
Rope with dyneema core and polyester cover - most popular choice as it can be tapered or ran as it is
Hollow braid rope such as http://www.dinghy-rope.co.uk/rope-for-sale-en/types-of-rope/maffioli-swiftcord/" rel="nofollow - Maffioli Swiftcord - strength is within the cover, can't be tapered but you can also stitch a smaller diameter 12 strand dyneema rope into it to create the taper

Neptune - do you not find the Excel Racing too hard wearing? It's burnt some holes in our previous kites on our catamaran.

We find the http://www.dinghy-rope.co.uk/kingfisher-5mm-dyneema-evolution-race-rope.html" rel="nofollow - Kingfisher/Maffioli Evo Race with dyneema core a bit softer and just as good. I linked to a 5mm here as an example but it can also be purchased in 4mm.

Cheers

Andrew

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Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 26 May 16 at 8:45pm

Originally posted by RS400atC

I like soft rope for the kite halyard, any stiffness causes drag through the blocks,

Interesting, that's not been my experience.
We sail a 200 and use 4mm Kingfisher Evo race. The Evo seems to come in a tad thinner than the Marlow, which helps free running.
One thing I 'discovered' with the 200 was to keep the chute mouth in good condition. When we bought the boat the kite had loads of tiny holes and the chute had rope channels. I filled the rope channels and covered that bit with Hmdpe anti wear tape. Our new kite has no holes at all.
Didn't bother tapering the halyard, couldn't see the point.
We also have 6mm Evo race sheets which are more like 5.5mm.

Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 27 May 16 at 10:37am

More sold on the dyneema option now following your feedback. Was favouring a polyester option beforehand: either EB Sprintline or 8 plait PS (and I know one top MR sailor who happily uses 8 plait).

Hadn't really considered the Evo race as an option. Still quite liking the Robline Dinghy Control Line option. Bit softer on the hands and possibly a bit gripper than the Evo Race.

P&B are pushing Kingfisher 3.5mm Super Dyneema. Anybody any experience of this?

Posted By: a_dowley
Date Posted: 27 May 16 at 10:43am

The Super Dyneema is essentially an Evolution Race, just in a slightly smaller size from the 4mm.

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Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 27 May 16 at 11:51am

The 4mm Evo Race I bought was undersize anyway.

Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 27 May 16 at 12:59pm

I supply EB 8 plait as standard, the coloured stuff seems to last better and shrink less i dont know why but it does! Sprintline is a bit twisty for my liking but runs well. D Racer (Excel racing equivalent) is very good but overkill really - it can be tapered though which is a bonus.

New product on the block is EB Xtreme. 3.5mm polyester/technora - its absolutely bombproof and should last 2-3 seasons on most dinghies.