Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Tacking in zone |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 3:40pm |
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You cannot assume anything. Whether the wind shifted or not would be a matter for the PC to determine in their 'facts found' as would whether or not B was (far enough) above the layline or not. Breaking it down. Rule 18 'switches on' when Y reaches the zone at point 1. As they are on opposite tacks at this point Rule 18 does not apply (18.1a). When Y tacks at point 3 they are not entitled to 'Mark Room' as the rules clearly state that 18.2 does not apply between them. 18.3a allows Y to sail above close hauled as long as they do not cause B to sail above close hauled or prevent them from rounding the mark. As there was contact between them it shows that something clearly went wrong. As Y also changed course to go above I believe Rule 15 applies. So unless Y can prove that B was well above the layline and could have changed course to a close hauled course then the odds are definitely not in their favour but B is also not required to react to Y unless it is obvious they are not keeping clear. B may have assume Y would sail astern of her and tack. Without a witness the case for Y does not look good. My gut feeling in this case is that most PCs would find in favour of B unless there is a witness involved. The rules are stacked against latecomers at a windward mark on port, for a good reason IMO. So my advice is, if you are going to come in late on port make sure you have a gap to go in and if it doesn;t work you need to bail out (bail out protest later).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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That's certainly the example the commentaries discuss with respect to 'prevent'. OK. What does anyone think about Diagram 2, where Y deliberately puts on a mark-trap? ![]() Edited by Brass - 11 Apr 16 at 8:28pm |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Provided boats had been overlapped, not clear ahead/astern when the first of them reached three boatlengths from the mark Absobleedinglutely. |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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I would guess it is Rule 11 as Y is not preventing B from passing the mark on the correct side (so doesn't break 18.3) as B is well above the layline they could head up..
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Can B pass the mark without hitting Y?
How is that not 'preventing' B from passing the mark?
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Not sure what you mean...
I don't think we need the "prevent" clause in this situation since if Blue goes behind yellow she's entitled to mark room (18.3b), and if she goes in front of yellow and past close hauled then that's the first sentence of 18.3(a). |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I assume blue doesn't have to predict at point 4 that yellow will stay htw past the mark, and by stage 5 will need to go past close-hauled, so blue is wrong.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Jon Meadowcroft ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 26 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 64 |
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This seems a pretty pointless and unrealistic example
In the starting position Y is downwind of B who is on the lay line. Apparently by pointing the boat head to wind after a tack Y gets its transom past the mark before B gets there. It does not happen like this! If it could happen Y tacked in the zone. I don't think she wants to be hanging about waiting for anyone else to turn up. B can easily sail over the top has physics has to make Y stop! |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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Can B pass the mark without hitting Y? Isn't that Y preventing B from passing the mark?
Yes, if it is possible for B to luff up past her close hauled course before she hits Y
Disagree. If B bears away, she will be clear astern of Y. |
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Brass ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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We are discussing the operation of a rule. Of course the example is contrived. I'm trying to examine what happens at the boundaries of the rule. I disagree that it couldn't happen in practice. If Y had passed head to wind before reaching the zone, it would be a routine mark-trap, so all that is needed is for Y to misjudge her position with respect to the zone boundary when she tacks. B has never been on the layline. B is always well above the layline. If B is on the layline, she's nearly always going to get the benefit of rule 18.3( a ) first sentence.
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