New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Silver Dream racer article
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Silver Dream racer article
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Silver Dream racer article
    Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 11:08am
With respect, I really don't get the fixation with lighter boats.  I'm sure the designers on here would be able to add far more than I, but a design of boat has the weight incorporated in the factors that produce it's ultimate performance. Yes... absolutely there's a place for the ultra-lightweights like the *eros, but the downside (IMHO) of these is that they must by definition be more sensitive to crew weights than a heavy boat, as the person sailing it makes up a greater % of the all-up sailing weight.

When we look at the truly great, successful and long-lasting designs such as (for example), the 505, Finn, Contender, Osprey and even in this company, the RS400 you have to ask what is it that makes them stay popular, and for the most part the answer is their handling characteristics.  Those that sail them know that there are faster designs out there. They know that there are lighter "equivalents" available, yet they still shell out vast sums to buy these boats that are (GRF aside Wink) respected universally within the sport. 

It's no coincidence that many in these fleets are 40+; yes, disposable income plays a significant part, but the knowledge that the handling characteristics of a Finn will not only make it a bloody difficult boat to get the best out of, but it'll behave in a way that allows you to sail safely even if it unexpectedly starts blowing dogs-off-chains.  It's also no coincidence that one of the first comments you'll hear when discussing these classes is that "they're really good on the sea".  See above.  What would I rather be sailing in an F5+ on the sea; Finn or *ero? Finn every time.  505 or 49er?  Contender or 700/Musto?

Weight has a massive effect on the boat in terms of technique too.  One of the things I love about the Finn is that it rewards "GOOD TECHNIQUE", as in that stuff we all learned or aspired to as we learnt to race.... the 5 essentials, hull steering, roll tacking etc.  Yes these are still important in the lightweights, but their (broad-brush alert) twitchy handling don't allow you to settle and get comfortable - important factors for the Silver Sailor generation.

You're right about the Contender not being perfect; one of the major factors that led to me selling my (£500) example was the boom height as my, ahem, powerful physique caused problems when tacking.  I'm pretty sure there was a short-leach sail produced for the boat that sorted this out, but presumably there was a performance penalty as it didn't seem to take off in sales. Shame.  Lightening the boat (IMHO) would completely change the character of the boat - for the worse. All the things that keep people coming back to it would be gone as it transformed itself into a top-heavy RS600 sail-a-like, making it difficult for those new to performance sailing to use, and not allowing the old-hands to take that much needed (and often absolutely essential) break between races.

Be careful what you wish for......
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 11:28am
Apologies for wrong-ish thread but getting uploads to work has been a real 'mare.

Here you go Itick, Javelin without a gorilla in the front.

Sort of related anyway, big boats 5.35m  (but lighter than a Wayfarer, heavier than an Alto) that can be sailed by young n old and heavy n light comfortably in most raceable conditions.

I know there are many arguments against but I still think well sorted two person have a lot to offer, especially for older returners and novices. The satisfaction of teamwork coupled with the motivational factor of a team plus the bonus of a little moral a physical support if things start to get a little much.

One thing always disappoints me is when owners of some boats boast how difficult and demanding their class is, why would you do that? Straight away you are sowing seeds of discouragement, I always tell people how easy my boat is to sail. Yes some classes have multiple tasks to master but if you start by telling people it is easy and focus on smoothness and routine, confidence and speed will naturally follow.    






Edited by Do Different - 01 Apr 16 at 11:46am
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 11:32am
Originally posted by jeffers


I agree, there needs to be a youth programme but perhaps not to the extent that the current one it. I think sailing is trying too hard to emulate football and other sports where you have U16, U18, U21, U23 categories at international level. Sailing it not a big enough sport to support that plus there is so much more to sailing than racing. One of my most memorable sailing experiences was half Decker sailing on the broads, real swallows and amazons stuff. I was in my late 20's at the time and just getting back in to sailing.

You are of course right here Paul, in that sailing is about a skill and hobby for life rather than being purely about racing.  At OSC we've had some really good racers through out kids programme who are going on to great things, but we've also had great success in helping those that weren't "natural racers" enjoy the sport, assisting them in finding what they want to do with it, be that moving on to big boats, powerboats, instructing or sailing for leisure.

AFAIK, youth categories are purely U16 for Junior Pathway classes, and U19 for Youth (though as an Olympic Class I think the Laser Std goes up to 21). Within the Finn Class (and the other Olympic classes I believe) the International Youth category has just changed to U23 to bring it in line with other Olympic Sports.
The difficulty with these categories is when you have a freak like the Yoof, who had to move out of the Junior Classes at 13, and Youth Classes at 15, and now has to compete at 17 with 22 yr old Olympians, due to his size (see below pic of "normal sized" me with 17 yr old Cameron and 16 yr old Callum).  For him this has worked well, allowing him to race alongside the very best and learn from them, but I'm sure there's plenty of others that become despondent at having their arses handed to them.



Edited by Bootscooter - 01 Apr 16 at 11:34am
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 11:54am
How tall are you Boots? We have met  Wink
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 11:56am
Really? Where?

I'm a sensible 5'8" Smile
Back to Top
maxibuddah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 12:03pm
No he ain't, he makes Ronny Corbett look tall
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 12:07pm
LOL
Back to Top
iiiiticki View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 06 Mar 16
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 12:32pm
Cameron has 'filled out' since I last saw him!
Back to Top
Bootscooter View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 12:35pm
He certainly has - 96Kg now!!  Was it SailFest 14 we last saw you?
Hi mate Callum (on the right of the pic) is even bigger than him! There's a really good piece on Callum written at the Euros in Barcelona (Cameron has linked it on his FaceBook page - link in my signature).


Edited by Bootscooter - 01 Apr 16 at 12:39pm
Back to Top
iiiiticki View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 06 Mar 16
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiiiticki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 16 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Apologies for wrong-ish thread but getting uploads to work has been a real 'mare.

Here you go Itick, Javelin without a gorilla in the front.

Sort of related anyway, big boats 5.35m  (but lighter than a Wayfarer, heavier than an Alto) that can be sailed by young n old and heavy n light comfortably in most raceable conditions.

I know there are many arguments against but I still think well sorted two person have a lot to offer, especially for older returners and novices. The satisfaction of teamwork coupled with the motivational factor of a team plus the bonus of a little moral a physical support if things start to get a little much.

One thing always disappoints me is when owners of some boats boast how difficult and demanding their class is, why would you do that? Straight away you are sowing seeds of discouragement, I always tell people how easy my boat is to sail. Yes some classes have multiple tasks to master but if you start by telling people it is easy and focus on smoothness and routine, confidence and speed will naturally follow.  

That picture is of Richard and Kathrine Smith of Glossop SC. Multiple European and National Champions. in their case that boat is fairly new but two brothers who are fellow club members of mine, the 'Reid's' sail Jav. no. 500 which used to belong to their father. It must be 40 years old and still takes races at championships. Three years ago the 'former boy' helmed 500 in the Bala Long Distance and took a third. The Jav. is a Peter Milne design and was meant to be a sort of lesser FD.....the FD is another story. Py is, or was, 946, get that lot rolling and you know your'e going fast!!!   
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy