Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 161752 Tynemouth |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
What defines a skiff? |
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maxibuddah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 01 Mar 16 at 7:16pm |
Nope, the D-One is a skiff, maybe, or is it? I just don't know anymore.
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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As I said, skiff has to do with history, not boat shape. Pretty sure that in 60 years, the Sydney harbour skiffs will look nothing like they do now, but they will still be skiffs. What we are calling skiffs are simply dinghies optimised for a particular wind range and sailing style.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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realnutter ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 15 Location: Reading, UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 129 |
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No, it isn't... At least the manufacturers don't claim that it is....
Couldn't find the word skiff anywhere on the D-One site, not even in the forums.. |
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transient ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
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In cases like this common usage usually dictates the definition.
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Is the D1 hull shape based on that kind of thing? Maybe it is what you get if you cross a skiff with a Finn?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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andymck ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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I think the B14's say they are
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Andy Mck
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Riv ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 13 Location: South Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 353 |
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In reply to Roger about the 5o5.
I was writing in the Bethwaite context of the 90's and he considered the 505 a blow down wind boat. Just did the current sums, the 5o5 hull weight is 30% greater than the 49er and the righting moment 30% less with also 30% less total down wind sail area. (took both boats beams and SAs from wikipedia and assumed each sailor was 80kg). Every boat is an apparent wind boat, it's just the extent to which they can exploit the phenomenon that is different. Out of interest I listened to the JC wordwide podcast with Randy Smythe. Interesting stuff and he relates how he sailed with Dennis Conner in the 1988 America's cup Cat Stars and Stripes. He said that if a ballon was released from the windward mark going dead down wind to the leeward one then the Cat could beat the ballon. I expect that most Cats can now do this. That's real apparent wind sailing. Could a 49er beat a ballon to the leeward mark? I don't know. Maybe someone here can tell us? However given the discrepancy between the 49er and 5o5's data and the 5o5 still having a symetrical spinnaker I think it unlikely that even with the new size spinnaker it's still not really an apparent wind boat in the Bethwaite terminology |
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andymck ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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An effective apparent wind boat is one sailed downwind fully powered up will beat the same boat sailed on a run as deep as its sails allow but not requiring trapeze or hiking to windward.
There probably ought to be a wind speed in there too. The alternative definition of a skiff A boat that is a dog in light winds. Unsailable in big wind and waves. But if the conditions are right are great fun. Even catches the 4 and 5k as they are sailable in big waves and the topper boats for obvious reasons. Edited by andymck - 01 Mar 16 at 9:23pm |
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Andy Mck
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Roger ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Mar 04 Location: Somerset Online Status: Offline Posts: 524 |
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Hi Riv There was a post on another sailing forum last year by Julian Bethwaite which looked at a wide variety of boats as he looked for a path from Oppi to 49er, in response to questions he was always being asked. Its worth having a read if you haven't already, but here is a nice quote Finally I have used the ISAF HP definition about sailing faster than the wind, downwind, most of the time, to draw the red line. Not sure why a 470 dose not do it more often (Tack down wind), but we also know a 29er dose, most of the time, (and yes, I know why a 29er dose). What is irrefutable is that a 5o5 and to a lesser extent a I14, spend a lot of money and effort setting there boats up so they can quite deliberately switch to HP modes both up-wind and down wind, so, from my POV I consider the 5o5, the tipping point boat, it has has a foot in both camps, one could say the best of both worlds. If you look it up, (I'm reluctant to put a link here) it's called Graphic representation of dinghy performance |
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Oli ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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with our own modernization of the word skiff imo in this context it refers to the following 2 rules of definition:
asymmetric spinnaker apparent wind sailing in all but drift conditions (ie fastest to sail angles and not soak) so guess that would include 18ft 16ft 12ft i14 cherub r class b14 musto rs800 rs700 may include? d1 rs100 any others ive missed? of course you can have traditional skiffs, rowing skiffs and other regional variations that may crop up. When someone talks to me about skiffs i immediately assume the 2 rules above unless they say otherwise. others of course may decide contrary to my opinion though. |
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