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Paramedic View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Feb 16 at 8:06am
One of the main problems is see with single handers in general is they tend to be slow, overpowered or both.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 16 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Paramedic

One of the main problems is see with single handers in general is they tend to be slow, overpowered or both.


Doesn't that describe dinghies as a whole?
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rqy99g View Drop Down
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Posts: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rqy99g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 7:57am
Originally posted by realnutter

Originally posted by rqy99g



I agree and apart from the Hadron the classes mentioned are old designs.


You say that like it's a bad thing....

The fact that they're old designs still being home built and raced proves that they're GOOD designs.

Actually, a bigger indicator that they're good designs is that they're still being commercially produced too....

I just thought (maybe naively) that there would be newer designs (Solo 56, OK 57, Minisail 61, Phantom 71, Streaker 75) utilising a more modern approach to building which had perhaps developed on the stitch and glue method. There has been a lot of development using composite material such as foam sandwich, carbon, kevlar, etc and I'd hoped that the builders side may have developed where using CAD and CNC machines could produce kits which are easy(ish) to build with accurately cut parts at an affordable price. I'm probably looking for the Holy Grail of single handed sailing which just suits me Wink

Ironically I'm tempted by the Minisail idea.


Edited by rqy99g - 07 Feb 16 at 7:59am
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Rupert

 Doesn't that describe dinghies as a whole?

No i don't think so, certainly not to the same extent at least. Most two man boats dramatically increase their sail area once round the top mark, so you don't need a mainsail thats big enough to fast downhill while still being sensible up the beat.

Much as i think the standard of racing in the Solo class is really good and it's on the whole a pleasant boat to sail, it's a lot of work for not a lot of speed. There are classes that do the speed/work ratio better like the Supernova but are - IMO - less pleasant to sail. We'd all love a Phantom downwind, but only the larger fraternity can turn the bottom corner if its a three or more.

Sure, there are two man boats like that but if you don't like busting a gut to go slowly there are loads of options :). There are fewer options in the singlehander category, though i'd be interested to have a go in an Aero and the H2 Hadron looks interesting, though unfortunately i can't see it being a big hit without the marketing might of RS behind it.
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Posts: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith_Callaghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 9:49am
You are of course right about the marketing power of RS. But we are hopeful that the H2 will sell on its merits once there are a few out there. Aero and H2 are completely different in basic concept.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:20pm
Plenty of help and advice at minisail.org.uk
friendly informal group.
Regularily for sale on ebay etc, usually for next to nothing.
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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by rqy99g

 
I just thought (maybe naively) that there would be newer designs (Solo 56, OK 57, Minisail 61, Phantom 71, Streaker 75) utilising a more modern approach to building which had perhaps developed on the stitch and glue method. There has been a lot of development using composite material such as foam sandwich, carbon, kevlar, etc and I'd hoped that the builders side may have developed where using CAD and CNC machines could produce kits which are easy(ish) to build with accurately cut parts at an affordable price. 

There are classes that have a strong home-build tradition that use composite materials. The Cherubs, Aussie Javelin, possibly some N12s. I am not aware of any single handers, though.

But I think it is wrong to draw the conclusion wood = old fashioned. Wood is cost efficient, easy to work for an amateur, and has quite a few advantageous properties. And keep in mind that wood can be used as a core for composite builds. There is a reason it is still finding use in high performance projects. More historically, Julian Bethwaite built 18s on a balsa strip plank core. And today you will find people building high performance sports such as the Shaw 650 using strip planked cedar cores.

Sure, carbon on a foam core would have many advantages to these solutions, but it would be more hassel and more expensive to build for an amateur builder. Not that it wouldn't be fun :)
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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by Rupert

 Doesn't that describe dinghies as a whole?

No i don't think so, certainly not to the same extent at least. Most two man boats dramatically increase their sail area once round the top mark, so you don't need a mainsail thats big enough to fast downhill while still being sensible up the beat.

But doesn't your statement above already contain the answer? RS Vareo, RS 100 and D-One all do exactly that: increase their sail area once round the top mark. Losing some of the simplicity of a single hander of course. But yes, the *eros seem to be an option.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by ChrisB14

I am not aware of any single handers, though.


Moths and ICs. But the modern Moth is a stretch for most home builders.

Originally posted by ChrisB14

But I think it is wrong to draw the conclusion wood = old fashioned. Wood is cost efficient, easy to work for an amateur, and has quite a few advantageous properties.


I'd contend that wet layup epoxy foam is a lot easier for an amateur to build a decent strong light boat than wood. Less dust with wood though, and maybe less fairing and sanding. There's some ideas being worked out with pre laminated foam/carbon panels too.
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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Posts: 101 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 16 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by JimC

Moths and ICs. But the modern Moth is a stretch for most home builders. 


Yes, I did forget the IC. 

Originally posted by JimC

I'd contend that wet layup epoxy foam is a lot easier for an amateur to build a decent strong light boat than wood. Less dust with wood though, and maybe less fairing and sanding. There's some ideas being worked out with pre laminated foam/carbon panels too.

Ultimately "ease" is probably also a question of which material someone prefers. But I see your point.
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In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts)
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