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fudheid View Drop Down
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3 boats length
    Posted: 23 Feb 16 at 1:28pm
this happened at a classic reggata last year we sailed a tumalare (smallest boat in the fleet) and at the leeward mark the largest and quickest barged the mark after we clearly stated they had no water.. we were at inside our 3 boat length, but the team of pro sailors shouted us down and with boats of significant value they don't get too close.
They helicoptered off before we could have a friendly chat in the bar.....so they didn't get any friendly advice from the victors  Wink
Moral of the story is that in boats of vastly differing lengths (i think the difference we had was 40ft) and vastly different speeds, it is very hard to distinguish a boat at 60ft when they hit their 3 boat zone).
Cheers you

only me from over the sea......
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 11:20pm
I got a opinion on retractable bowsprits normal position and overlaps from the RYA a few years ago when it was a bit more of a live issue.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I was trying to figure that out last night. The rule must be the same as for finishing ( you can't pull the pole out specially) but when the pole breaks the 3 non-pole boat lengths circle, you are in the zone.

Originally posted by JimC

The rule is normal position, so if you routinely set the pole before the mark it may count. But it may be less of an issue now, because there are fewer boats where the pole both extends significantly beyond the bow and is set separately from the kite. I also have a feeling that whereas two boat lengths felt about right to get the pole out early for a fast hoist, three boat lengths kinda feels a bit soon.

There is no reason why 'The rule must be the same as for finishing'.  Rule 18 and the Definition of Finish are absolutely different.

Rule 18.2 Giving Mark-Room
...
(b) If boats are overlapped when the first of them reaches the zone,


Finish A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment in normal position, crosses the finishing line from the course side.
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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:31pm
Has anybody actually read the Q&A?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by andymck

What if at 210 feet no one is overlapped. But by 60 feet they are all overlapped.
Does the new zone reset rule 18? Or are there in fact still 2 hypothetical zones?


The 2nd 70 footer would have rights as overlapped boat when the 1st 70 footer gains the overlap, just as 3 boats the same length would work.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 7:08pm
The zone operates between any two boats, So there is a zone for the 20 footer and the 70 footer, and a zone for the two 70 footers.

Seems to me that an overlap that changed between 210 and 60 feet would most most likely fall foul of the last point of certainty rule anyway.
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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 6:50pm
What if at 210 feet no one is overlapped. But by 60 feet they are all overlapped.
Does the new zone reset rule 18? Or are there in fact still 2 hypothetical zones?
Andy Mck
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 3:27pm
The 20 footer has to give room to both 70 footers if the overlap is gained in time, as the 2nd 70 footer is overlapped, and therefore has rights, even though not in the zone. No different to 3 20 footers, except on a practical level for the poor b**tard in the 20 footer. That the 2nd 70 footer already had rights on the 1st one doesn't make a difference, as far as I can see, whether the 20 footer is overlapped or not. Either both or neither have rights.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 1:30pm
It means that the first 70 footer is in the zone relative to the second 70 footer 10 ft before it is in the zone relative to the 20 footer. But what situation to you envisage where this causes a problem?
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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 12:24pm
The definition of the zone and 18.1 do make this a potentially hazardous enterprise. Imagine 2 70 footers with a 20 footer in front of them.
Does the zone change once one of them gains an overlap on the 20 footer as they reach their one boat length or does the previous zone still apply?

When Rule 18 Applies
Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone. However, it does not apply
between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward,
between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for one but not both of them is to tack,
between a boat approaching a mark and one leaving it, or
if the mark is a continuing obstruction, in which case rule 19 applies.
Andy Mck
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