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2016 PY Predictor

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2016 PY Predictor
    Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 10:33pm
There is no way that you can take PY racing seriously, particularly on a one off race.  Success will always be weather, tide and boat dependent, and that is ignoring the comparative skills of the sailors whose data the PYs are based.

If you have close marginal planing reaches Lasers will dominate Solos.

If it is dogs off chains then 420's or Fireballs may dominate.

If it is beat and running Merlins should beat 400's.

It the wind dies in a pursuit race it will favour the slow boats and visa versa.

You get the picture.

So by all means go PY racing, have fun, but don't take the handicaps or the results too seriously, or you will get seriously screwed up.
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 10:43pm
Not a fan then?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 16 at 11:56pm
Same is of course true in development classes, at least if the class hasn't stagnated into a virtual one design. And crew weight is so much more of a factor.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 8:03am
Originally posted by rich96

The Phantom must drop back a little - no way is it a sub 1000 boat in most conditions. 300 is significantly quicker most of the time


In contrast to that we feel that 995 for the Phantom is about right on our little inland puddle. I believe a higher proportion of returns come from inland clubs so the PY probably gets skewed a little.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 8:58am
Originally posted by chrisg

Not a fan then?
Won't say that I am a fan, but I have had a little success in the past including Grafham Grand Prix and Chichester Snowflakes, my point is that you shouldn't take handicap racing or PY numbers too seriously.  PY does not effectively deal with the type of course, changing wind conditions or classes where there is a large proportion of good or bad sailors ... Let alone consider tidal gates, as at this year's Steamer.

One other relatively new phenomenon to think about; the PY for an Aero or D-zero will be determined by club returns, where the PY will be established from data across a range of conditions, mixing the good and the bad.  Yet at one off events someone can turn up with the complete set of rigs and pick their "club" to suit the prevailing conditions but benefit from a PY established from data that is sub optimal.
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:03am
Originally posted by jeffers


Originally posted by rich96

The Phantom must drop back a little - no way is it a sub 1000 boat in most conditions. 300 is significantly quicker most of the time


In contrast to that we feel that 995 for the Phantom is about right on our little inland puddle. I believe a higher proportion of returns come from inland clubs so the PY probably gets skewed a little.


Perhaps on a puddle ?. Definitely not on the sea
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:05am
What happened to the experiments with splitting the results for sea and inland?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Rupert

What happened to the experiments with splitting the results for sea and inland?

It would be nice, but where do you draw the line? As I've said before, inside the breakwaters at Portland and Grafham Water are more like each other than they are like say outside the bar at Hayling or Frensham Pond.

There are facilities working up on the website for clubs with similar water to compare local results, which is probably a better option.
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The Moo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 9:48am
Originally posted by davidyacht

There is no way that you can take PY racing seriously


The level of debate on here suggests people do, probably in the main because there is no viable alternative.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 16 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by The Moo

Originally posted by davidyacht

There is no way that you can take PY racing seriously


The level of debate on here suggests people do, probably in the main because there is no viable alternative.


Or that for most of us, there has never been any alternative, particularly if you want to sail something designed & built in this century.

The fact that no one, not even the body running the system takes it seriously is very disquieting and not doing the sport any favours at all.
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