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Rule 11?

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    Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:01am
Posted on another sailing forum. Which boat is the keep clear boat and why?

My understanding is that blue is keep clear boat but I am now questioning that. There is apparently a case in the casebook that covers this but I cannot see which one. Perhaps Gordon or Brass could give their view?

There was contact between sails/booms at point 2:


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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:11am
I have a feeling that there *was* a case but it isn't there at the moment.

I'd disqualify both for failing to keep clear of a leeward boat and failing to avoid a collision and let them argue the toss with the RYA appeals if they wanted to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ventus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:20am
Really interested in the answer to this one. When I first looked at it I was certain the answer was obvious, but now I'm not sure.

Hope someone can explain the law to see if I was right or just stupid/out of date.

Edited by ventus - 23 Sep 15 at 11:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:38am
You have to go to the definitions.
so, 1) I think the definitions say that they are overlapped: rather oddly the definitions seem to say that two boats pointing bow on at each other are overlapped.

and 2) Each boat has a boat on its leeward side, which is therefore a Leeward boat and is to windward of it, so is itself a windward boat.

Rule 11 says a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat, therefore each boat is required to keep clear of the other, otherwise its in breach of RRS11.

So I DSQ both, and let cleverer and more expert people at the RYA sort out if I should have exonerated one of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:55am
Originally posted by JimC

I have a feeling that there *was* a case but it isn't there at the moment.

I'd disqualify both for failing to keep clear of a leeward boat and failing to avoid a collision and let them argue the toss with the RYA appeals if they wanted to.

That is now my thinking Jim. Perhaps there should be a query raised with the RYA/ISAF as this is a pretty common occurrence.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 8:18pm
Never was a case, and I can't see the need for one.   All that is needed is a simple methodical application of the rules and definitions as Jim has done.

Ok, sure these scenarios are a bit of a party trick, like buttonhook finishes, but once you've seen them once they're memorable and pretty easy.

Now, for bonus points, how does it play with same boats, same orientation and points of sailing, but passing starboard to starboard?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:15am
Thanks guys  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:47am
My understanding was that it was treated the same as it would be if blue was simply coming down wind. It is pretty difficult for the leeward boat to decide at a moments notice whether the other boat is sailing by the Lee. I've sailed in places where that angle can easily be achieved simply by the effect of wind shifts.

Is it just the drawing, or did yellow really let its sail out at the last moment to cause the contact?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 8:01am
The point of that bit of the definition is that, as long as a boat is sailing more or less downwind, it doesn't matter whether she is by the lee or not : you just look at her boom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Rupert

 did yellow really let its sail out at the last moment to cause the contact?

2bl before contact, according to the OP on the original thread. 
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