Rule 11?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12165
Printed Date: 26 Jun 25 at 3:11am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rule 11?
Posted By: jeffers
Subject: Rule 11?
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:01am
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Posted on another sailing forum. Which boat is the keep clear boat and why? My understanding is that blue is keep clear boat but I am now questioning that. There is apparently a case in the casebook that covers this but I cannot see which one. Perhaps Gordon or Brass could give their view? There was contact between sails/booms at point 2:  ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:11am
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I have a feeling that there *was* a case but it isn't there at the moment.
I'd disqualify both for failing to keep clear of a leeward boat and failing to avoid a collision and let them argue the toss with the RYA appeals if they wanted to. |
Posted By: ventus
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:20am
Really interested in the answer to this one. When I first looked at it I was certain the answer was obvious, but now I'm not sure. 
Hope someone can explain the law to see if I was right or just stupid/out of date. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:38am
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You have to go to the definitions.
so, 1) I think the definitions say that they are overlapped: rather oddly the definitions seem to say that two boats pointing bow on at each other are overlapped. and 2) Each boat has a boat on its leeward side, which is therefore a Leeward boat and is to windward of it, so is itself a windward boat. Rule 11 says a windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat, therefore each boat is required to keep clear of the other, otherwise its in breach of RRS11. So I DSQ both, and let cleverer and more expert people at the RYA sort out if I should have exonerated one of them. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 11:55am
That is now my thinking Jim. Perhaps there should be a query raised with the RYA/ISAF as this is a pretty common occurrence. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 23 Sep 15 at 8:18pm
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Never was a case, and I can't see the need for one. All that is needed is a simple methodical application of the rules and definitions as Jim has done.
Ok, sure these scenarios are a bit of a party trick, like buttonhook finishes, but once you've seen them once they're memorable and pretty easy. Now, for bonus points, how does it play with same boats, same orientation and points of sailing, but passing starboard to starboard? |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:15am
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Thanks guys ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:47am
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My understanding was that it was treated the same as it would be if blue was simply coming down wind. It is pretty difficult for the leeward boat to decide at a moments notice whether the other boat is sailing by the Lee. I've sailed in places where that angle can easily be achieved simply by the effect of wind shifts.
Is it just the drawing, or did yellow really let its sail out at the last moment to cause the contact? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 8:01am
| The point of that bit of the definition is that, as long as a boat is sailing more or less downwind, it doesn't matter whether she is by the lee or not : you just look at her boom. |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 8:56am
2bl before contact, according to the OP on the original thread.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 10:04am
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Was that to try and slow to avoid or to ensure the rigs met? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 10:28am
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http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=168410
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 1:33pm
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I think I'll stick with assuming that boats who are running towards me on the same tack are windward boats, and continue to assume that so long as I don't make it impossible for them, they will be keeping clear of me. I'll also assume that if I need to avoid contact when it becomes obvious they aren't, I will do so if at all possible, rather than t boning them. If I start trying to alter course before that, then there are situations where I'll simply get more in the way of their avoidance than if I'd carried on, making things worse for everyone ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:05pm
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Prolly better to look under your boom:if theres a boat there on the same tack you need to keep clear.
Nobody tried the stbd to stbd scenario yet? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Sep 15 at 7:55pm
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If I'm going upwind and bear away to avoid a boat which is expecting to avoid me, Brass, then we have chaos. Of course we have to keep an eye out, but we also have to have clear instructions, and I'm not convinced that the descriptions I've been reading on here give that at all. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |