Is my laser overweight ?

   So it was pretty windy/gusty yesterday - and the courses we had included a long broad reach and a long tight reach.

For some reason - I admit it could be technique, ability, fitness, setup etc my laser wouldn't jump onto the plane at the same time as the boats around me (mid fleet).

Afterwards as I looked for excuses I began to wonder if maybe my old(ish) laser is actually 5-10kg heavier than the newer boats around me - and whether this could be a big part of the problem.

So, how does one go about weighing a laser ?  (the club doesn't have a boat hoist readily available)

Is this really likely to be my problem or am I deluding myself ?  (in a couple of races a few weeks ago, last time out - in more moderate sub-planing winds - I scored my best results of the series, so not sure why the sudden drop down the fleet)

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bob3021 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 14 May 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote bob3021 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Is my laser overweight ? Posted: 26 May 15 at 9:49am
	So it was pretty windy/gusty yesterday - and the courses we had included a long broad reach and a long tight reach. For some reason - I admit it could be technique, ability, fitness, setup etc my laser wouldn't jump onto the plane at the same time as the boats around me (mid fleet). Afterwards as I looked for excuses I began to wonder if maybe my old(ish) laser is actually 5-10kg heavier than the newer boats around me - and whether this could be a big part of the problem. So, how does one go about weighing a laser ? (the club doesn't have a boat hoist readily available) Is this really likely to be my problem or am I deluding myself ? (in a couple of races a few weeks ago, last time out - in more moderate sub-planing winds - I scored my best results of the series, so not sure why the sudden drop down the fleet)

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 10:14am
	unless I am mistaken there is no published weight for a Laser, so you'd have to weigh a whole bunch of Lasers and see where yours fell in the range. Bathroom scales at bow and stern would be better than nothing.

chrisg Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 23 Mar 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 893	Post Options Post Reply Quote chrisg Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 10:58am
	It might be your technique, but at the risk of sounding rude are you sure its the boat? Are you similar size/weight to others you are racing? I am a LOT heavier than the other guys that sail 300's at my club and I can just about keep up with them if no-one is planing and am fairly close if we are all planing, but if its marginal conditions then they are off and I won't even see which way they went. Its definitely not the boat weight that's the issue in my case.... Edited by chrisg - 26 May 15 at 10:59am

turnturtle Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538	Post Options Post Reply Quote turnturtle Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 11:03am
	Did you let the kicker off.... I always used to and then wonder why I didn't plane as early as others. And as per Chris- I last sailed Lasers at 95kg... That's too heavy for them.

piglet Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Jan 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514	Post Options Post Reply Quote piglet Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 12:24pm
	In my experience it's never the boat, BUT, Weighing a small boat isn't hard with only 1 set of bathroom scales, just get the boat on balance point on 1 gunwale on the scales, tip it towards you so there is no weight in your hands and so that you can see the dial/readout. I weighed an old Contender like this without problem.

Chris 249 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chris 249 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 1:11pm
	My rule of thumb has always been to look at conditions in which boat (or crew) weight could not be an issue. If you are almost always at the top in those conditions (ie howling beats if you're heavy, marginal planing if you're light, shifty stuff etc) then you are obviously sailing well some times and therefore any specific problem areas could be a boat problem. Similarly, if you are very consistently dropping back against boats each side in most conditions, it could be a boat problem. If, on the other hand, you're always really slow (ie even when it's really fluky or really heavy) and/or inconsistent (ie losing 6 boats in a shift, then hanging in for two legs and losing another 5 boats at a mark) it's not the boat that's the problem - it's you. If you are light, but cannot roll tack really well and win on a marginal planing day, then it's not boat weight - it's you. If you are heavy and you cannot win on a strong day and capsize on the gybe, it's you. And if you cannot regularly (if not always) win in a club fleet where the top sailors are not in with a chance at national/world level and never have been, then it may well also be you. I'd never normally blame the boat for a general performance issue, unless you have good evidence that it's the boat - say, for example, you had previously been on the podium in championships in that class. However you have identified a specific issue that occurs in conditions when a specific factor could logically be the problem. So (IMHO, speaking as someone who sails old Lasers in titles) it seems that you may well be on the right track. I sail so many classes that, for economy, I tend to sail old gear (and I get too sentimental to sell stuff and use the cash for newer kit) but it can still get you into the chocolates in 40 boat fleets, at least some of the time. To me, the key is that when you can do well some times but specifically identify a problem area that could logically be closely linked to a potential boat problem, you may be on the right track. On the other hand, those people who say "I never get better than 25th but it's because my sail is two regattas old" are just blaming their tools. As noted, since you have identified a specific problem and admit it may not be the boat, it seems that you are not falling into the trap of blaming your gear, therefore IMHO it could be the gear. Edited by Chris 249 - 26 May 15 at 1:20pm

PeterG Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822	Post Options Post Reply Quote PeterG Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 1:14pm
	Technique is far more likely the issue. However, if it's quite old and has hard treatment the bottom may be soft. I once had a 30 year old Laser that had been shingle beach launched for a long time. The bottom was noticeably soft when pushed. That doesn't help getting on the plane. When I changed it for a one year old one the difference was clear.
	Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59

furtive Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 30 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 188	Post Options Post Reply Quote furtive Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 May 15 at 1:34pm
	Try lifting your boat (with a friend, unless you're feeling super-keen) and comparing it to others at your club. If one is significantly heavier you should be able to tell. And/or try swapping boats with someone for a race. See if you still have the same issues in another boat, and if your friend is suddenly having problems in your boat.

NHRC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 13 Dec 13 Location: Lymington Online Status: Offline Posts: 102	Post Options Post Reply Quote NHRC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 May 15 at 10:26am
	I have done a fair bit of testing with lasers and they do vary in weight, in shape and in build quality massively. Any keen laser sailor should try a tour of the factory before purchasing a boat to see how they are built. For example measure the depth of the centreboard slot often different aged lasers, it can vary as much as 20mm. Feel under the deck lip where the hull is glued to the deck, some have a 20mm deep lip others a five.