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Slipping Main Halyard

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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 May 15 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by NickA

I've never seen a Jav with any external halyards - tho it seems a good idea.  A cleat at the top would also reduce compression on the mast.  Probably banned by class rules, in case it makes the boat too modern


The aerodynamic drag is the usual objection. External halyards are really only viable on classes where everyone has to have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 15 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by NickA

The mast and hence cleat are pretty new (15 months) and the halyard is routed so that it doesn't run through the cleat when hoisting.  Shouldn't have worn out yet.

My first boat (a laser 2) had a hook rack for the jib halyard and it was a right pain in the bum - but that was because the halyard also set the rig tension - I could never get enough rig tension on.  Not an issue on the main of a boat with independent rake and rig tension adjusters.

Various knotty solutions will work for now - JohnJack's slipknot under the cleat appeals, and yes a picture would be a help!  Should think it's essential with a D12 halyard; didn't think D12 would cleat at all.


Like this (not our boat so not a D12 hal but otherwise same diff)
 


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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 9:25pm
I'm going to take a look tomorrow evening and see what the main halyard could be tied off on!  The cleat evidently isn't man enough.  A horned cleat would probably pull off the mast as soon as the kicker went on!

Another idea is to have a D12 halyard with a loop in the end, then put a hook through said loop and tension it with a 2:1 - halving the load on the cleat.  Which is what my V3000 has as a jib halyard - and holds 300lbs rig tension in a v-cleat with no issues.

Btw: most Javs have a simple rope main halyard and it's common for the halyard sheath to strip off the core at some point, mostly 'cause people are too tight to move the halyard along an inch every few weeks.  The Jib halyard, which controls the mast rake is indeed wire and attached to a multi-purchase system.  Rig tension goes on via the shrouds through lots of blocks and rope (D12 on a modern one).  Kicker is 16:1 or 24:1 and cunningham at least 4:1.  So lots of force pulling the main down.

I've never seen a Jav with any external halyards - tho it seems a good idea.  A cleat at the top would also reduce compression on the mast.  Probably banned by class rules, in case it makes the boat too modern ;¬)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote djdhi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 6:55pm
I don't know what loads your mainsail take s but I solved this problem by going back to basic seamanship.  Fit an old-fashioned horned cleat. Swig up the main with the kicker,cunningham and outhaul off, take a round turn ,a figure of eight, and finish with a locking turn. You could make a mock up horizantally on a scrap piece of timber. I'll think you will find it won't slip.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote djdhi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:29am
I would have thought a Jav would have a wire halyard....I am sure mine did. Why not have an external halyard and the cleat at the top? Tasar has a wire with a 'pip' on it and a metal 'V' cleat 3" from the sheave at the top.There is only 6' of wire to stretch. Byte has a similar solution but with string and a cleat. The only problem is that you need to change your glasses to see up there and on the Byte which runs with loaded cunningham it tends to jam.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Puddlebuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 8:02am
Had the same problem with a Phantom and I decided to minimise the amount of rope available to stretch by having a small cleat at the top of the mast. The other benefit is there is no extra compression through the mastonly when you decide to apply heaps of cunningham.
Further when the affected peice chafes you can just cut it and you only lose six inches of halliard rather than reaching the point where it runs the full length of the mast twice and is too short even then.  Have used this on my last three carbon mast and works fine. The tail is just attached to a small peice of elastic at the base to keep it tentioned and tidy it up.


Edited by Puddlebuster - 21 Apr 15 at 8:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 15 at 6:25am
If you thicken the halyard with an insert please remember to taper the insert by cutting away strands gradually

This makes the insert roll over you sheave block at the top easier and prevents creating a hard point where the rope thickens that massively reduces the strength of the rope.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by NickA

In the area WHERE it cleats?  Or in the area JUST BELOW the cleat?



In the area where it cleats, providing it's long enough just cut 20-30cm off the end and slide it inside the cover, the cover is still the bit in contact with the cleat but you will be amazed how much better it holds.
Used this on a Phantom when I had one and it never slipped, and you can need lots of cunningham tension on a Phantom when it blows.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 10:47pm
Nick, if you are thickening D12 with a core then you need to do it for the region in the cleat + an inch or two on either side. This is standard practice on spinnaker halyards but I have to say I dont know many people using D12 for main halyards.
I have found that boats which rely on standing rigging to provide mast pre-bend are suitable for hook racks and those which rely on main halyard tension for pre-bend need a cleat such that additional purchases can be added to the halyard once nearly up to assist with increased tension to induce bend. The RS600 being a case in point.
One solution sometimes used is to use two cleats or pack out the top end of the cleat to get a better bite angle.
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