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Slipping Main Halyard

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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Slipping Main Halyard
    Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 10:17pm
In the area WHERE it cleats?  Or in the area JUST BELOW the cleat?

A dyneema halyard with some way of locking it in a v-cleat would be easier than making one the exact right length to hook over a hook rack!  Plus you only need a mast length of expensive thick stuff with something cheaper (and only strong enough to get the sail to the top) to pull it through.  I'm thinking 4mm and 2.5mm.

I have 2.5mm dyneema twinners and they cleat fine without a core; but only due to the amazing metal jawed Mach2 cam cleats, which will grip anything and have your finger off in an argument (sadly no longer available).
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Roger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 7:12pm
Of course the best way to get D12 to lock in a V type cleat is to give it a core, easily done by sliding in a length of the same rope in the area where it cleats, 2 min job, but essential to get a hollow core rope to cleat fast.
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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 6:08pm
The mast and hence cleat are pretty new (15 months) and the halyard is routed so that it doesn't run through the cleat when hoisting.  Shouldn't have worn out yet.

My first boat (a laser 2) had a hook rack for the jib halyard and it was a right pain in the bum - but that was because the halyard also set the rig tension - I could never get enough rig tension on.  Not an issue on the main of a boat with independent rake and rig tension adjusters.

Various knotty solutions will work for now - JohnJack's slipknot under the cleat appeals, and yes a picture would be a help!  Should think it's essential with a D12 halyard; didn't think D12 would cleat at all.


Edited by NickA - 20 Apr 15 at 6:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 9:13am
Hauling the sail up with the halyard running thru the cleat will quickly wear the cleat jaws. I make sure the halyard is running beside the cleat until the sail is up, then flip the rope into the jaws and finish pulling up the last inch or two. I have two clam cleats and a vectran halyard. If it's seriously windy I haul down on the cunno after hoisting the main, then let it off & re-tension the halyard. Stops the sail slipping down under cunno, but makes it a right nightmare dropping the main after sailing. I just hate those racks - I find them too fiddly. Next mast will probably have a halyard lock.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 9:00am
We have had this problem on the Scorpion (which is probably the first boat I have sailed that has a single camcleat/v-jammer holding the halliard

We haul the sail up and find the point at where the halliard sits in the cleat. We then put a small loop in the halliard at this point (one that will 'slip' out easily). We then thread the tail of the halliard through this to give us a 2:1 (there is a halliard block under the cleat) and pull the knot down so that when cleat the knot sits up against the lower face of the cleat with the halliard in the cleat.

Not sure how clear that is?? Maybe a picture would be best. However it works very well the main cant budge (we used a D-12 Halliard)
  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 8:35am
Hi
I had this issue last year after replacing the rope. I think the new rope just kills and old cleat so replace the cleat and you should be fine.
My old boat had a wire halyard and rack, worked really well.
Good luck.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 11:07pm
Indeed, that is the plaster man if your rope construction allows it. Originally most of them had a wire halyard with a rope tail (this was usually spliced 3 strand rope, I think it was a rule or something...), the rope was always slightly too big to fit through the hole in the mast without some wrestling, and being not particularly robust would slowly get sawn through by the halyard.
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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:54pm
Like craigo says, was my plan. Nice strong H
Bummel lock splice with a mousing line through it to pull it down to the rack.

PS don't mind the sail coming down a bit when the Cunningham goes on ... So long as it goes back up again without me hauling on the halyard.☺
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:09pm
No need for knots, just splice the loop and splice the tail onto it. Worked really well on the 49er. The problem with cleats is that they tend to wear from pulling the sail up with the halyard running through the cleat, also there is always a bit of creep as the rope binds between the jaws.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:01pm
Disadvantage of a hook rack is the knot for the loop weakening the rope (most of us have plenty of strength in reserve though, so not really an issue). The knot for the loop needs to be able to pass through any holes in the mast for an internal halyard and/or allow enough travel so you can detach it, you don't want it getting jammed in the sheave at the top of the mast (it might be able to pass through the sheave easily, in which case you're ok).
Of course they offer pretty good repeatability, once the braid of the rope and the knots have settled, you know you are putting it in the same place every time.
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