Personal Handicaps

   There's probably factors I haven't considered about personal handicaps (which is why I am posting this, in order to be educated), but I really don't get it...

Forgetting for one moment the perceived issues with the PY system, why would a PH system be required?  I kind of see that it can show progression and development, but surely I could see that in the distance between me and the "class champion" at the Club?  

As iiTick mentioned in another thread, is it not a bit condescending to award a "win" to someone that has clearly not sailed as well as someone else, purely because they didn't sail as badly as they did previously?

Please don't think I'm against encouraging newcomers the sport, but couldn't this be done with a "Most Improved" trophy for a series, awarded by comparing scores from the previous series, but without the "smoke and mirrors" of a PH?

As I say, I'm happy to be educated on something I'm not aware of with these systems, so please tell me the advantages of PHs.   

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Bootscooter Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bootscooter Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Personal Handicaps Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 11:07am
	There's probably factors I haven't considered about personal handicaps (which is why I am posting this, in order to be educated), but I really don't get it... Forgetting for one moment the perceived issues with the PY system, why would a PH system be required? I kind of see that it can show progression and development, but surely I could see that in the distance between me and the "class champion" at the Club? As iiTick mentioned in another thread, is it not a bit condescending to award a "win" to someone that has clearly not sailed as well as someone else, purely because they didn't sail as badly as they did previously? Please don't think I'm against encouraging newcomers the sport, but couldn't this be done with a "Most Improved" trophy for a series, awarded by comparing scores from the previous series, but without the "smoke and mirrors" of a PH? As I say, I'm happy to be educated on something I'm not aware of with these systems, so please tell me the advantages of PHs.

The Moo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 809	Post Options Post Reply Quote The Moo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 11:18am
	Generally the same people will win but the racing will be much closer (in a pursuit race)

Bootscooter Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bootscooter Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 11:23am
	Really? Surely the winner (in this situation) will be the one that performs above their previous standard the most (as per the previous results used to calculate the PH)?

The Moo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Jun 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 809	Post Options Post Reply Quote The Moo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 11:32am
	I should have said generally over the length of the series.Might try and respond more fully when I have a bit more time and am using a proper keyboard!

zippyRN Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 14 Sep 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Post Options Post Reply Quote zippyRN Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 12:59pm
	as others have alluded to it depends on the context in a pursuit race it should in theory produce closer finishes across a series of conventional races the most improved will win.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 1:15pm
	The way we run personal handicaps is as follows. Previous seasons results are put in a spreadsheet, one sheet per series. Export crrected times from saiwave. The spreadsheet converts corrected times to % of winners corrected time. Spreadsheet then calculates average % from winner and number of finishes for each competitor. Each series goes to another sheet. All the results are averaged with most recent results weighted, so it spits out for each competior a %, varying from about 102 for regular racewinners up to 125 or more. Spreadsheet then allocates each sailor to a 'band' band 0 is 100-104.9%,band 1 105% -109.9 etc. If in band 0 you get sad handicap, bwnd 1 handicap plus 5% etc. So everyone has a series of milestones they can progress through, and we use the personal handicaps in two series which are dual scored.

Bootscooter Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bootscooter Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 1:30pm
	I can understand a series being dual scored, but I can't get my head around the principle of PH being anything other than condescending. As an example, I believe that golf handicaps work in a similar way (?), but if I went out for a round with a pro and got round in 20 more than him/her there's no way I could consider myself to have "won", if I got a 21 shot advantage via handicap because I'm not very good. Does that make sense?

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 1:47pm
	So what is the distance between you and the class champion and how has it changed over the last 3 seasons?

GarethT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714	Post Options Post Reply Quote GarethT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 2:39pm
	Try thinking of it as ........ a bit of fun!

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 16 Nov 14 at 3:12pm
	If it were a perfect world and we had somehow managed to allot craft an actual performance figure which works, I could see the benefit of a personal handicap you try to better, in my pathetic way I try to visualise myself doing it down the lake, my boats handicap is 1024, I can now sail it to 1060 which means I'm 36 points off being capable in my opinion of myself. Then I go on the sea and can sail it to it's handicap, so what does that mean, the boats on the sea are not as good as the boats on the lake? No, not at all. It means the boats on the lake have too generous a handicap against my boat. At least I think it does... Then again it could be because my boat's handicap is wrong or I'm a crap sailor on the lake. Not at all confusing. Edited by iGRF - 16 Nov 14 at 6:18pm
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