New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: At what point?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

At what point?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: At what point?
    Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 9:07am
Does a boat over taking to leeward gain hailing rights?

It's normally me doing the overtaking, but last night my EPS excellence had gained me a good start, full triangle and 2nd beat lead over the fast handicappers, tide as usual was in play with a wind band out to sea, and on the punching tide downwind leg I'd judged better to take a direct line to the mark and pick up more wind (the leeward mark was in the wind band)whilst a Hornet was behind and to the lee but wanting to over take but take a higher line inshore presumably kite driven but with regard to less tide inshore.

So he barely gets his nose level with my stern and starts hailing 'windward boat keep clear' obviously at this point wrongly as I pointed out to him in a gentlemanly stfu way, but with a kite he's quicker and nudges closer to the point he'll clip my boom as it's right out by the lee. The wind variable light 1-2 occasional puff, tide about 1-2 knots against us.

I shall not say at this point what then happened, what I want to know is what should happen?
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
balladsailor View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 24 Apr 11
Location: Milton Keynes
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote balladsailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 10:18am
Rule 11 is quite clear. As soon as you are overlapped, you become the give way boat, though up to that point you are not required to anticipate the developing situation. rule 15 states that the overlapping boat must give you time and opportunity to keep clear.
Once the overlap to leeward is established, the leeward boat has right of way, but does not have puffing rights, and must not sail above her proper course.
Will be interested to hear what actually happened!
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 10:44am
Well it is complicated by the route to the mark, I'm single handed dead running aiming at it, he is sailing above the rhumb line (presumably to keep a kite filled and or to go inshore to escape the tide, a simpler solution would have been for him to sail to windward, but he's being blind deaf and stupid so I had to do aggravated ironic discharge at him, then I had to pump a bit to get clear in case he did actually run into me so both now in the wrong but I need to know how wrong I actually was, (other than the pumping bit which is now legitimate in an EPS since Sir Ben's superb example at Weymouth).
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
balladsailor View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 24 Apr 11
Location: Milton Keynes
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20 		Post Options Post Options   Quote balladsailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 11:18am
Unfortunately the route to the mark is somewhat irrelevant, as there is no definition of a proper course for a downwind leg. What appears to be the sensible solution does not always work for everyone.  Had he tried to pass to windward you could have, and I guess maybe would have luffed him out of sight!
From the other boat's perspective, if he felt he had the speed to power through your lee, it seems to be the best option whilst remaining the right of way boat.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 11:29am
Proper course varies from boat to boat. 

In this case it is the Leeward boats proper course that counts.

What they cannot do though is luff up as their kite collapse as they get affected by your dirty winds because, as we all know, your proper course is always 'in the absence of other boats'....
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
GybeFunny View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 Oct 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 403 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 11:53am
Originally posted by jeffers

In this case it is the Leeward boats proper course that counts.


Really? That doesnt seem logical. So you are saying that an assym boat can come up behind a dead running Laser and sail below the Laser and force the Laser up to the assyms proper course?
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 11:58am
Originally posted by jeffers

So you are saying that an assym boat can come up behind a dead running Laser and sail below the Laser and force the Laser up to the assyms proper course?


Exactly so. Do many people really still not know this?

Edited by JimC - 05 Sep 14 at 12:00pm
Back to Top
GybeFunny View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 Oct 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 403 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 12:07pm
I didnt realise that, I can see it now in rule 17:

ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE 
 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull 
lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail 
above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and 
overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails 
astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap 
begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear. 


Thankfully I only very rarely race against assymetrics!
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 12:14pm
Not just asymettrics of course. Just the same happens if a Laser running by the lee meets say my kite free canoe which sails hot angles.
Back to Top
GybeFunny View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 Oct 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 403 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 12:23pm
Of course. I just looked at the rules and it seems it would also apply in class racing, if say one Fireball liked to sail the angles on a run and another preferred to dead run and minimise gybes. Of course in that situation it becomes trickier to prove what your proper course would be seeing as people may expect that all boats of the same class would have the same proper course.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy