Edition
Boats for sale
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
T.V. |
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JohnJack 
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 12 Mar 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 246 |
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 Topic: T.V.Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 4:48pm |
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Other than just going out for a blast every now and then we only sail when we are racing. And going for a blast is really practice for racing. Anyways the club/lake is deserted when there isn't any racing going on anyway
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iGRF
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 2:23pm |
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Stop it now.
Get back in your boxes. Other than swanning about the Caribbean on some tub, sailing without racing purpose can never be described as 'fun' stop being silly now, does anybody here go out just for a sail? No of course not, why would you? That's what windsurfing or kitesurfing is for. Edited by iGRF - 09 Jul 14 at 2:24pm |
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 1:57pm |
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Boating, Sailing, Yachting however the royal chartered yachting association would like it branded, will always be associated with privilege.... it's going to be very difficult to shift that.
Ask yourself why it matters that a convicted criminal arrives for sentencing by boat? It shouldn't matter, but in our society, that tidbit of information seems to resonate something.
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JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:49am |
There were more classes then, not fewer, but they were more likely to be gathered together. If you look at the map, in places where there are are several clubs in a small area (eg Solent, Thames etc) there would be a tendency for different clubs to have different fleets, so you might get Scorpions at one, Merlins at another, that sort of thing. Yes there were more slower boats, but there were also more faster boats, its much more concentrated in the middle now. Clubs were often oversubscribed, maybe even had waiting lists, so they could be very prescriptive about what classes they allowed, often not even having handicap fleets. Yes, singlehanders were much much rarer. People (ie men) could go sailing every week leaving the kids at home with the wife and not expect to be divorced within 18 months. Very different times. Edited by JimC - 09 Jul 14 at 4:53pm |
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maxibuddah
Really should get out more
Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:44am |
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I think that most clubs need to accept that racing is not the new all and end all for them. Concentrate on the fun sailing and push the racing to the back. Make it a leisure club rather than a competition club.
The rya provide a training network (maned by club members in must cases of course) that is soley aimed at getting people to compete later on for the Olympics. They even push for clubs to become "champion clubs", which is of course elitist. Hardly encouraging for beginners when everything is racing this and racing that. Perhaps it's time for a better organisation for small leisure clubs, that is solely aimed at fun sailing. You may get more people coming along. Once they've got the hang of it and want more then they find the nearest club that runs racing and move onto there. Would that work? Add for the TV thing I meant popular programmes about sailing, not those that happened to have sailing in them. That's where howards way went wrong in the end. It turned into a soap that happened to have boats in it. That and of course the incredibly wooden acting |
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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JohnJack
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 12 Mar 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 246 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:36am |
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This maybe a rose tinted view, probably adopted from the stories of the rose tinted spectacled oldies at my club, as it all happened before my time.
In the boom years (60's,70's,80's) there seemed to be less diluted classes and most of the boats that weren't that quick by today's comparison. There also seemed to be allot of double handed boats. You only have to look at the sailnumbers of the 'classic' dinghies like the GP14 (14,000), Enterprise (25,000), Mirror (71,000) all two handed, compared to the single handers (Laser excluded). Compared to the single handers of the time Solo (5,000 though currently taking off) Streaker (3,000?) My point is, there seems to have been a big shift (at my club if not else where) to single handers that possibly wasn't there before. Imagine an adult turning up at your club,never sailed wants to get into the sport saw the boats out on your lake/river/bay If most of the club are in single handers he is going to be going away with a leaflet, which advertises the RYA Dinghy 1 & Dinghy 2 courses that he can do in two months time if they are not booked up. If his interest stays for two months and he does those courses, he either rents a club single hander or buys a boat (solo, laser etc etc depending what is sailed at the local club) spends more time fighting with the boat at the back of the fleet rather than the boat on boat action he was looking for, loses interest moves on. In the boom period, adult turns up at club. Jumps straight into an Enterprise as a crew (where you don't really need to do that much) with an experienced helm, is up with the fleet amongst other boats at the windward mark and actually properly learns to sail/race (wind awareness, looking for gusts, getting a feel for how the boat reacts, rules, situational awareness etc etc). After a bit of time, either buys a boat and passes the experience on or moves to another class with a Spinny, and so on, and so on. I was at West Kirby Marine Lake a few weeks ago on a Friday night (the in laws were house hunting and had managed to escape) when they had their Juniors out. There must have been atleast a dozen Cadets (the boat) out with older Junior helms and younger Junior crews. The racing was reasonably close, they were working with spinnakers (symetric so lots of tactics going on) It was fantastic to see, better than seeing kids out in Oppies/Toppers by them selves looking bored.
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:32am |
Not so, Howard's Way was incredibly popular... back when sailing was considered something aspirational and interesting. If you wants boats and adventure, then you only have to look at the Pirates of the Caribbean or the Jake and the Never Land Pirates franchises. On domestic TV the Hornblower series was popular and remains so on iTunes download. Sailing can capture the imagination of the young and the old when the spirit of adventure is upon them. Box courses with a biblical rule book and some odd scoring system on some former gravel pit on a plastic dinghy, erm, less so.... I said it before, but I do wonder if, despite being utterly counter intuitive, improving the statistical accuracy of the PY system has actually undermined the human experience somewhat? That's what happens when you let statisticians take over the asylum.... Group exercise programmes are growing, running groups are seemingly on the increase around where I live and I think it's recorded officially that cycling groups are generally over-subscribed - and by a cross section of society, no just MAMILs. The 'old' PY race... the one where no really knew, nor cared who 'won' as not even the times were being taken, never mind the results broadcast across the internet for all and sundry to see, certainly had more people happily sailing around with their mates than the results posted today on the internet. The competitive element coming from the interactions with those around you, not the re-sort of a spreadsheet and html file. It's all gone rather dry and stale... Maybe the answer to PY and increasing 'organised sailing participation' would be to run the racing scratch, just like a sunday cycle club... there's always class racing and circuit sailing for those with ultra-competitive aspirations. When I look at the results at my old club, it seems pretty pointless to keep flogging a dead horse. My last 'competitive sail' was on Sunday, against a mutual friend of Graeme and mine... he whooped me, but it didn't stop me trying and learning from his 30+ years experience. Oddly enough it was 'one design racing', not that we knew it or it mattered, neither was there a course or a rule book or a handicap, personal or otherwise.... Witchcraft Chakras, with 6.2 and 6.4 sails. Great sailing and a bit of a natural competitive edge to it too. Edited by kneewrecker - 09 Jul 14 at 11:39am |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:19am |
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Oh and back to telly, telly is only likely to regularly broadcast the sailing sport element rather than sailing the past time.
It hardly seems two years ago that I was rushing home to catch every race and tedious presenters aside I thought 'they' didn't do a bad job of the Olympics, were there ever any viewing figures recorded I wonder? |
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:13am |
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If we're referencing pop culture then Pierce Brosnan trashed a very expensive racing catamaran in The Thomas Crown Affair.... not that anyone would have noticed he did it by grinding on a winch that wasn't even loaded with a rope, most blokes watching would have been more impressed by Rene Russo's norks.
Edited by kneewrecker - 09 Jul 14 at 11:13am |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 09 Jul 14 at 11:12am |
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Let me just clarify, I don't 'hate' the PY system it was something I liked, OK it had it's issues but then it was never going to be perfect, can never be perfect. What I hate is the recent manipulation that is going on for whatever reason, conspiracy to swell regatta ranks or supply computer software, rival companies trying to eliminate competitors, whatever. Something that has been slowly changing and evolving suddenly moving all over the place in all directions for no reason that is apparent to the man in the street. This, as a result of commercial activity and profit which was never something the RYA involved itself in supporting.
What is happening at the moment is wrong, very wrong. Edited by iGRF - 09 Jul 14 at 11:15am |
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