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Latest legal Laser tweaks????

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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 10:57am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Have Laser sailors always been stereotyped as cheaters?

So far as I can see there's been a substantial minority who, lets charitably say, may sometimes go beyond what others would call the letter of the law, for at least the last hundred years. The rigidity of the Laser rules is a response to that sort of thing, not a cause.
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 11:10am
Originally posted by JimC

 The rigidity of the Laser rules is a response to that sort of thing, not a cause.

I wonder if that pushing the limits and rule breaching is a fairly common trait of certain psyches; as such, the rigidity in the rules of the boat, means that the same proportion of folks with this character trait, who just happen to sail them, push the limits through kinetics and rules observation, rather than boat modification....

just some low-rent pop psychology.... I choose my words carefully when posing the initial question.  FWIW, I don't think you can characterise any one class as cheaters anymore than any other.  At every club I've sailed at for the past 30 years, we know who they are and generally speaking, we've done very little about it- be it rocking, penalty observation etc.  It's not age or boat choice driven, if I was to cast aspersions at these folks, then I'd say they're all quite good sailors, just not as good as think they should be.  I feel sorry for them actually.... I'd far rather be at the back and surprise myself on occasion with a mid fleet result, than have to cheat and piss folks off just to get into the lower echelons of the leading pack.       
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 11:20am
Originally posted by hobbiteater


from grfs link


Not my link, I got it from jharvey who posted it earlier and was just trying to get to the bottom of what everyone was on about, but having read that it convinced me (not that I need that much convincing) never to go near serious laser competition. (Did you read the bit where he says if they try and pull the knot you've tied on the main sheet through the pulley and it passes through at the end of a days racing, you'd likely lose all your results?)

Talk about the Planet A-hole...

Here the actual quote:
A measurer may test the knot by trying to pull it through the block. If he succeeds after you've done a day's racing you've probably just wasted that day's sailing. Hell that knot can come undone all on its' own wether you want it to or 'knot'

Edited by iGRF - 19 Jun 14 at 11:26am
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 11:37am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by JimC

 The rigidity of the Laser rules is a response to that sort of thing, not a cause.

I wonder if that pushing the limits and rule breaching is a fairly common trait of certain psyches; as such, the rigidity in the rules of the boat, means that the same proportion of folks with this character trait, who just happen to sail them, push the limits through kinetics and rules observation, rather than boat modification....

just some low-rent pop psychology.... I choose my words carefully when posing the initial question.  FWIW, I don't think you can characterise any one class as cheaters anymore than any other.  At every club I've sailed at for the past 30 years, we know who they are and generally speaking, we've done very little about it- be it rocking, penalty observation etc.  It's not age or boat choice driven, if I was to cast aspersions at these folks, then I'd say they're all quite good sailors, just not as good as think they should be.  I feel sorry for them actually.... I'd far rather be at the back and surprise myself on occasion with a mid fleet result, than have to cheat and piss folks off just to get into the lower echelons of the leading pack.       

Interesting thought. Along the same lines, the fewer rules there are then perhaps the fewer rules you can break. I have a rival with a very illustrious world-level record who has in the past proven himself to be very happy to break right of way and measurement rules, but in a discipline where there are basically no rules even he can't find anything to break.

BTW that guy didn't sail Lasers much.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 11:49am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Have Laser sailors always been stereotyped as cheaters?

I can't recall a single instance of cheating among those towards the front of national-standard Laser fleets. I didn't spend long sailing the class seriously because of injury, but I would have to say that at the front of the fleet the rules are extremely well observed. At the middle of the pack when the kids are out, it's not so good but the overall standard is fine.

I watched one of the most tense high-stakes Laser races in history, the famous match race between Scheidt and Ainslie, from a nearby shoreline with Tim Alexander (4th in the Laser worlds, 4th in the Olympics) and it was a classic example of hard fought sailing to the rules.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 11:56am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by hobbiteater


from grfs link


Not my link, I got it from jharvey who posted it earlier and was just trying to get to the bottom of what everyone was on about, but having read that it convinced me (not that I need that much convincing) never to go near serious laser competition. (Did you read the bit where he says if they try and pull the knot you've tied on the main sheet through the pulley and it passes through at the end of a days racing, you'd likely lose all your results?)

Talk about the Planet A-hole...

Here the actual quote:
A measurer may test the knot by trying to pull it through the block. If he succeeds after you've done a day's racing you've probably just wasted that day's sailing. Hell that knot can come undone all on its' own wether you want it to or 'knot'

Sounds normal. Having the mainsheet stopper knot come undone is a significant problem, as I have found to my cost too many times. In a decent breeze getting the boat sailing again can be a difficult exercise and therefore it's a safety issue.

The a-holes are not the people who use the experience of decades of racing to prevent this kind of thing, but the people who sit on the sidelines without any actual knowledge of the issues and throw insults around.

This sort of thing happens in all sports. If my bike seat moves forward when I'm bicycle racing, I may be DSQd. If I accidentally failed to fill in my scoresheet correctly when playing golf, I get DSQd. If I don't comply with the radio check requirements when ocean racing, I may be DSQd.

If you don't play by the safety rules, you may get DSQ'd. Not a new concept to most of us.


Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Jun 14 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Chris 249


Originally posted by iGRF

One thing that did perk my interest, that foiling set up, has anyone seen that live in the flesh anywhere?

Yes


Care to share that experience if I promise not to be rude to you about it?

I had a good look at it at the dinghy show, but there's been nothing newsy since, it's been looked after by a retailer here and other than taking money if you want one they are not that brilliant at promoting by demonstration which the bod over from Aus was at least doing the best he could do on a static display.

On form you will just abuse someone no matter what I write about the way it sailed and was built, so I don't think I'll bother.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by hobbiteater

from grfs link i like this

The Race Committee (and the Jury) needs to identify your boat through your sail number:

  • if you're over the Start Line
  • when you cross the Finish line
  • if you are seen to infringe a Racing Rule
  • if you need to be identified for safety reasons
fair enough but then goes to say
 
Complete sail numbers: please don't try to be clever and come with 183 and think you'll be allowed to race. Bit dumb to do this anyway; apart from a blank sail I can't think what stands out more on the start line than a 3-digit sail-number

so they want sail numbers to identify you but you cant use a partial number because its too obvious  Wacko

Having run a few nationals I'm fairly sure that they just want to be able to identify you on the finish and results sheets, and they also want to encourage people to have the proper numbers by telling them that there is no advantage in not doing so.

Those who spend their hard-earned holidays running races so that other people can have fun are surely entitled to encourage people to have the right numbers when it makes the job of finishes and results easier?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 1:17pm
I'm assuming that website is one man giving the world the benefit of his experience rather than an official class publication. It may not be completely representative.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 14 at 2:53pm
Hummm....cheating Lasers? Why pick on them? At a very recent open at our club for a popular boat  longer than a Laser and fully battened, very light wind. So many gybes, on a reach? and lots of accelerating tacking. Know what I mean?
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