Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Latest legal Laser tweaks???? |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 18 Jun 14 at 10:49am |
What a lot of [stuff] in this thread. What the Laser delivers is certainty. Certainty that there will be other boats to sail against wherever you go, certainty that you can just order up bits when you need them without puzzling over which is the best brand, certainty that you have the same kit as everyone else, certainty that you can turn up at the sailing club and go out on reasonably even terms with the rest of the fleet without having to pore over tuning guides, play with mast rake etc etc.
Those aren't things that particularly appeal to me, which is why I don't sail one, but they are valuable to a lot of weekend sailors who don't give a damn for chatter on forums or class politics and all the rest of the [redacted], and I think its a damn good thing for the sport that such certainty is available for those who need it. So it ****** me off that people and companies attempt to destroy that certainty, simplicity whatever for their own ends, be it flogging fake parts, persistent knocking of the boats, playing business fighting games or whatever. If you don't like the Laser fine. Loads of other boats. Brand new classes, older classes, 80s designs, you name it its out there and you can sail it if you want... Edited by JimC - 18 Jun 14 at 11:05am |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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That's sounds like a plea for 'live and let live' - can't fault that view Jim. The commercial interpretation of that would be 'free consumer choice', again I get that and support it. However the dice are loaded in favour of the Laser- supported top down from elite sport and bottom up from grassroots junior programmes.
Sure, there are plenty of sailors who don't give damn for class politics- there are enough active Laser sailors who elect to not be members of the ILCA and its branches to suggest that the ILCA do not actually represent 'Laser sailors' anyway. But to say that none of the power plays and business fighting (Kirby vs Babyfingers) does not affect them, is frankly a little naive. p.s. what was wrong with the 80's rocker line pre-edit?
Edited by kneewrecker - 18 Jun 14 at 11:08am |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Well without the Laser and I view it in much the same vein as Jims excellent post, we would have half the competitors at our club. It also amazes me how fast the damn thing still is in good hands which we have a couple of cleaning up thanks to it's generous handicap.
So I certainly don't see it going away any time soon, nor do I care about all the legalities and illegalities which it sounds like we could use to make life very awkward for the Mackerel boys if we chose to be anal about it, I'm sure we have probably only got a couple that are truly legal and that's probably due to age rather than design. But, it wouldn't do any harm if there were a reliable resource where folk could go to find out what's what, nor would it be a bad thing if there were a proper commercial operation looking after things other than a retailer. Did they leave an Agent style operation in place after the demise of Performance Sailcraft? Who is the go to source if you wanted to buy say a bunch of them now? |
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Sailboats.co.uk
apparently they are the official distributor for England & Wales.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Laser Performance
Purple Northampton Sailboats Are the 3 official sources of new boats I know of. Obviously LP are the builder so you are buying direct.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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iiitick ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 04 Jun 14 Location: gb Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
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To go back to the car analogy. How about if the 'governing body' of international motor sport would only support participation with 1980's cars? Club sailors can vote with their feet which is why our club has 14 Supernovas and only 2 Lasers. Looking at a youth sailing event recently all the kids with stars in their eyes sail Laser......whether they like it or not.
Talking to Supernova sailors at our recent open. They agree that the new epoxy boats are much quicker but are philsophical about it and realise that the boat needs to be right before it goes any further. Laser never corrected its deficiencies and presumably never will. Fine, let addicted Laser sailors sail them, it is a free country. What I object to is that they are promoted as the pinnacle of single handed sailing.....they must be, Olympic boat and all that. With the introduction of these new modern boats, as well as Nova's, Bytes etc. I can see the decline of Laser as club steeds while they continue isolated at international level. Remember those front engined Indycars that got whipped by a mid engined Lotus?
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kneewrecker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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I love the click through on the Laser Performance logo on sailboats.co.uk: |
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GarethT ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Apr 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 714 |
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I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that. Everyone knows that honour goes to the Finn ;-)
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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The Laser class fought long and hard against being "supported by elite sport"; so long and hard that sailing journalists like the long-gone Jack Knights advocated for the IYRU (and that is another example of how early the Laser was tipped to go Olympic) to create its own copy and chuck that in the Games. The reason the class spent years fighting off the Games selection was because it is a poisoned chalice, as is glaringly obvious from any look at the numbers of boats sailing. Are the 470s (zero attendance at the UK nats over the last few years) reaping the benefits of "elite sport"? Are the 49ers (a mere 20 at their last nats) there only because of loaded dice? Was the Star a major class in many countries because of its status among the Olympic elite? Has the Finn become a popular boat in most English speaking countries because of its 60 years of elitism? How did the Hobie 405 and Hobie 16 do in the UK on the basis of their selection as squad/youth boats? Seen an Elliott 6 or Nacra F17 fleet at your local club lately? It's blindingly obvious, and has been known for many years, that selection for the elite is not a recipe for getting the sort of fleets that the Laser gets, and it's almost certainly a hindrance. That has been known for decades and is clearly shown by the tiny fleets in most other "elite" classes, therefore to claim that the Laser survives on that basis goes against a vast amount of experience and evidence. I don't know who buys Lasers in the UK, but in my experience it's not squaddies but experienced mature professionals who have sailed a large range of other classes (FDs to Olympic level, Solings, Tasars, junior Cherubs and 18 Foot Skiffs to world title victories, 420s, etc) who regularly buy new boats. Some people may have the staggering arrogance to claim that multiple world champs in loose OD classes and development classes, who also have sometimes outstanding professional careers, are "brainwashed", but a more reasonable and logical view would be that they are extremely knowledgeable and experienced people who find that the class as it is suits their needs and desires. Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Jun 14 at 11:58am |
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Null ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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I just don't get the deficiencies argument. From experience i never found anything particularly wrong with my Lasers. Sure the transom mainsheet tangle was annoying, but then nothing is truly perfect in life. least of a sailing dinghy. Its such a pure boat, you get out exactly what you put in. its well mannered for newbies and has a great heritage and racing infrastructure both at home and around the world. Sure it has a tight ruleset (hasn't it always) but then the Solo class has stupid rules like you cant even talk about the benefits of a particular builders hull shape or sail cut. Are there better boats out there? Well im not so sure. The Laser is still great fun to sail, it would no doubt still be a success without the ringed circus or ISAF involvement IMO.
I do however think that long term its days will be numbered, i believe that ISAF and IOC will get bored of the political nonsense. I think (certainly from a UK perspective) that new viable options are in the market place and are now at a realistic price point to cater for more of the market space.
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