PY changes for 2014

Originally posted by craiggo Graeme, 10pts on the PY system will not make a big change a club level.

It was 1047 when he first bought one and my Blaze was 1046 we used to have a good old battle the same way we used to on our Boards.

Now he's what 1002 and 7 years older, he hasn't featured for a couple of years now, OK maybe it's banditness at 1047 might have been artificial (although at that time he had an old one), but 1002 it is not, 1015 is harsh enough, given the March of the Laser in the other direction, so from being 1047 to lasers 1078, it's now 1002 against Lasers 1088, that's 76 points and it does make a difference.

Jim you are spot on. The extra granularity afforded by using 1000s rather than 100s is responsible for a lot of bickering and in real terms makes very little difference.

At your average club, the good guys will still win and the less good will not!

There is a simple explanation for a lot of "bandit" classes and also those which are seeing large PY drops this year, Epoxy.

Although a brand new wooden Solo, Streaker, Phantom or (possibly) Fireball may be as quick as a new epoxy one, it's not the case when the boats get older. Most people sail club handicap races in boats at least five years old, with the brand new ones tending to be on the open circuit.

This means that a handicap 'correction' happens a few years after the epoxy boat was launched. There are still quite a large proportion of the fleet sailing ratty old wooden Solos and Streakers in club races across the country (although this is dropping rapidly), but not very many sailing old wooden Fireballs or Phantoms any more. The Fireball and Phantom handicap has probably just about finished its correction, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Solo and Streaker were knocking on the door of the Laser handicap once the old wooden boats have finally died and been replaced.

We sail a 15 year old epoxy Fireball in club races, and I reckon it still sails at about 95% of the potential speed of a new one. You couldn't have said the same about a fifteen year old wooden boat ten years ago ... would have been enough to just make it round the course without anything falling off!

I've also just started sailing a nearly new Streaker, and on my first sail it felt no slower round our local puddle than my old Laser did.

We (the Phantom fleet at Northampton) have been sailing off 1008 all year so a drop of 6 from that won't make much difference. Bit more hiking and a couple less pints might help....

Not that I put any relevance on handicap results as we regularly get 5 or 6 phantoms out but the list does show that the system is too slow to adjust especially in an era of few new designs or developments within classes to monitor.

The phantom has lost a lot of the top top sailors and as a result has fallen down the Sailjuice results. We have had good results when in a single handed fleet and top guys getting bad results when in a mixed fleet. That suggests that at 1008 it was about right. Going down to 1002 is not the end of the world as the Streaker, OK, RS300 and Blaze etc all appear to be down 5 or 6.

Oh hang on what about the Blaze's new carbon rig.... Have the RYA just hit return when processing last year's data or have they looked at the increased speed of that class (and others with design improvements) and applied some Logic? I am happy to be persuaded otherwise but guess not.

I'm not bashing the Blaze or the Phantom handicap but I do see a lack of consistency and logic coming from the numbers.

I know all the arguments surrounding the number of returns, strengths and weaknesses of boats, where they are sailed etc and that the Sailjuice Series is not the be all and end all but it is a good guide as there are top sailors from most classes regularly out. I do however think that some of the overall results do not support the movement in a lot of the RYA figures.

Please can we get some logic into the equation ??

Originally posted by Time Lord Forget all these artificial, mythical PNs and get yourself into a boat where you can class race at your club. Boat on boat is much more challenging and exciting than having to sit around after sailing waiting to find out how you have done. I can't think offhand of any other kind of racing that depends on actuarial calculations to decide the result - it almost reduces racing to the level of the judging in synchronised swimming!!