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PY changes for 2014 |
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Vronny 
Posting king 
Joined: 31 Mar 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 121 |
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 Topic: PY changes for 2014Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 6:37pm |
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It will be interesting to see if Streakers can really sail level with Solos.
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maxibuddah
Really should get out more 
Joined: 06 Mar 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1760 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 6:50pm |
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That'll be the last time any phantoms bother turning up at handicap races then
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Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 6:54pm |
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Miracle at 1200 is just plain wrong.
Back in the day Graduates, Fireflys and Miracles all sailed off the same PY and it was broadly fair. The Grads tended to be quicker upwind, the Fireflys on the tight reaches and the Miracles had their turn downwind. The Graduates have evolved and now carry an extra sqm of mainsail which doesnt really give much upwind, gives a litte extra downwind and really improves the reaches. The Fireflys havent changed at all, and the Miracles have not only started getting off the shelf production glass boats but they have adopted inboard sheeting, so now they are quick upwind, quick downwind and only have an issue on tight reaches. We have a pretty handy Miracle sailed by Nick & Hannah Smith at our club and Nick is a damn good sailor but for the Miracle to have the same PY as a YW Dayboat is crazy, and I am giving them 59 points in my Graduate. Yes I can leave them for dead upwind but downwind they take it all back and more. Our clubs suggested PY for the Miracle is 1074!!!!!!! so miles away from the official figure. |
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Times 10
Newbie 
Joined: 02 Nov 12 Location: Doncaster Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:03pm |
I agree, some of the best single handed sailors are sailing the classes which seem to be getting hit by the PY system. The best sailors are sailing Solo's, Phantoms and Streaker's. But these classes are having their handicaps reduced. What happened to the skill factor? The Lightning 368 have gone up 6, but what decent sailors are there in the class? Nice people and loads on here, but sorry the guys in Streaker's will just kick there ar_e's because they are better sailors, not because the boat is slower as a result of some dodgy Handicap system.
I know the guys at Ripon SC (Small pond with trees, where nobody should take racing seriously, but they do.
 ) think the Solo and Streaker should be on the same handicap, but put the Solo and Streaker on a lake the size of Grafham, the Solo will win. I think there is only one point of sailing a Streaker is quicker than a Solo and that is a close reach. Up wind about the same, but on a run or broad reach the Streaker gets killed as the extra Solo sail area wins. Well the Ripon guys have there wish, glad I don't sail there.Based on the Sail Juice series handicap system (Grafham size waters) where average Laser sailors mix with top Solo sailors, the Streaker and the Solo sailors should be on something like 1170.
RYA stop Handicaping good sailor performances.
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craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:11pm |
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Times 10,
My comments re: Miracles is a bit tongue in cheek. The RYA system is I believe now as fair as it will ever be, but yes there is a skill factor built into the values. If a particular class is full of beginners then assuming there are enough of them then the PY number will increase until the average class sailor stands a chance of winning. Of course if the top sailors all move into that class then they will clean up but the new PY system should be quick enough to partially fix it the following year. I dont see an alternative as a measurement system just isnt going to work as their are too many variable to sensibly include. We have to stop taking the view that one or two clubs are having a big effect on the data. Unless a class is only based at one or two clubs then it just isnt going to happen as the data used is coming from all over the country. You can see which clubs as they are now explicitally thanked on the PY list. |
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iGRF
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:45pm |
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An alternative based on measurement, would at least have a bearing in fact rather than random bollox of who bothers to send in 'returns'.
I agree the Miracle is ludicrous, we have good sailors using them, but the feeling is the returns come from lots of beginners in larger numbers at other clubs, to be fair and a craft performance guide, the sailor input should be removed from the equation because of the disparate randomness. This system as it currently stands is deranged, the Phantom has been singled out, I worry my pal will just give up and walk away, he was depressed enough last season, frankly it is outrageous that it's been allowed to continue which it will until they kill the class and it's growth, what is the point of that? |
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AlexM
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Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:49pm |
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We run local h'caps
Miracle - 1188 Solo - 1140 Phantom - 1010 |
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craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:54pm |
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Graeme, 10pts on the PY system will not make a big change a club level. If your pal suffers more than a single place drop on his series results I'll be shocked.
Also how can you say the Phantom has been singled out when the N12, Kestrel, Int Canoe, RS700 & Streaker have all taken similar knocks. As a 700 sailor who tends to do rather well at my club Im really not bothered by the drop and to be honest its just more of a challenge for me to carry on winning, and thats good as it stops me getting bored. |
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craiggo
Really should get out more
Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 7:56pm |
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As AlexM suggests you could always locally adjust at your club based on PYS.
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transient
Really should get out more
Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
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Posted: 26 Feb 14 at 8:11pm |
And the L2 on 1055. Always thought the old number was reasonably fair. There is a new 1 piece mast available now. A real tempter now for those wanting a cheap symmetric blast. Just need to sort out the sail controls. Edited by transient - 26 Feb 14 at 8:12pm |
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