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Too Many Classes?
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craiggo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 1:33pm
The thing is that I feel our dad's were better at either buying into established fleets or only buying a new class if others bought in with them. It's our generation that seem to want individuality and boats that are so specifically tailored to them that no one else in the club would ever buy one.

I think there are signs though that the old message is starting to get through. We are seeing a couple of fleets starting to form as people realize it's good to have others in the same type of boat to measure against.
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 1:57pm
At our club Supernova has largely supplanted Laser as the boat of choice. Three of those boats have been bought new. The only other boat in the boat park that was a new purchase is a Byte C2.......and I wish I could tell you where that was going to be next weekend.......but I cant yet....
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by craiggo

The thing is that I feel our dad's were better at either buying into established fleets or only buying a new class if others bought in with them.

I'm not sure the evidence is there to support you. I have 1964 and 1984 lists in front of me, and there are more classes, not fewer. Those are classes that have been bought in enough numbers to make the list, and someone must have started them all.
One difference is that rather than having a few dominant boat builders with national reach, there were many more little local builders, each one wanting to build their own design rather than pay royalties to someone else.
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by craiggo

The thing is that I feel our dad's were better at either buying into established fleets or only buying a new class if others bought in with them.

I'm not sure that's really true Paul- with the groundswell of internet marketing, and modern approaches to branding before it from the likes of Laser, Topper, RS, etc during the 80's and 90's, I'd say our generation has been largely receptive to buying 'en masse'... certainly to the point now where some of us now wouldn't even consider buying-in until we know there's an established fleet.  Chicken and Egg...  

But conversely I know quite a few sailors who find that older, owner led classes seem to offer some kind of peace of mind away from the b**locks of a new class development, or re-development in the cases of some lipstick jobs.  I'm not sure what path I'd take if I was launching a new class today, but conventional SMOD a-la-laser seems to have a finite product lifecycle and this is either good or bad depending on your point of view.
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 3:29pm
Good to see that boats like the Musto and Moth coming out despite the courses not always being suited, but more important boats that show sailing performance will be supported if the product is good.... despite what is said on here!


Originally posted by Simon Lovesey

We saw 95 different classes in the GJW Direct SailJuice Winter Series,  another possible measure of  number of active classes
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" dir="ltr" border="1" style="table-layout:fixed;font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #ccc"><colgroup><col width="55"><col width="120"></colgroup><t><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">1</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Laser</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">2</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Laser Radial</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">3</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Merlin Rocket</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">4</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Topper</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">5</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Solo</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">6</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">29er</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">7</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">RS 400</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">8</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">RS 200</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">9</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Fireball</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">10</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Musto Skiff</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">11</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">International Moth</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">12</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Enterprise</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">13</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Flying 15</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">14</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">RS Feva XL</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">15</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">420</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">16</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Blaze</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">17</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">RS 800</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">18</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">Phantom</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">19</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">2000 / Laser 2000</td></tr><tr style="height:17px;"><td style="padding: 0px 3px; font-size: 100%; vertical-align: bottom; overflow: ; text-align: right;">20</td><td style="padding: 0px 3px; vertical-align: bottom; direction: ltr;">National 12</td></tr></t></table>
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 3:47pm
[QUOTE=craiggo]The thing is that I feel our dad's were better at either buying into established fleets or only buying a new class if others bought in with them. 


Often they didn't have the choice. My Dad's first boat - a GP14 - on the Medway where the club had a strict policy that you had to sail one of the fleet boats. From memory, GP, Ent, Mirror, Solo, Fireball, maybe a couple more but that was it, or you couldn't join, let alone race!
They relaxed it later amid falling membership, and the GP was replaced by a Scorpion - a better boat in every way. (OK, IMO).
Inevitably we were the only one, so it's that old argument. I take variety every time! Wink
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by JimC

there were also quite a few of local one design keelboats, something you don't see so much of these days.

That would be an interesting list. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see that many local one designs are more popular now than they were in the mid 80s. Classic boat revival really started in the late 80s, early 90s. Doubt they submit PY returns any more - all the one's I've heard of race OD. 
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 7:41pm
I suppose what I say is largely based on my own father. Sailed at Helensburgh in Solos and OKs back in the 70s when they were the big fleets. At the end of the 70s he joined the Laser fleet at Monklands SC. When we moved to Southport he joined the Grad fleet and then when we moved to Chew Valley Lake SC he joined the Solo fleet. Finally when he joined Thornbury SC he bought into the established YW Dayboat fleet. I haven't seen the same behaviour exhibited by many in my generation, but perhaps I'm blinkered.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Good to see that boats like the Musto and Moth coming out despite the courses not always being suited, but more important boats that show sailing performance will be supported if the product is good.... despite what is said on here!

Has anyone here actually said that boats that show good sailing performance will not be supported? Some of us (like me) may have said that boats that have more emphasis on being "accessible" will be BETTER supported in general and may be better in terms of maintaining the popularity of the sport, but that's different to saying that no one will support fast boats.
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 14 at 9:39pm
Think plenty have said that Chris that don't have a balanced argument such as yourself.

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