Curtains for Assymetrics?

Originally posted by transient Handicaps on the sea......bought a 200 at the start of the season. Disappointing in the extreme for all the reasons highlighted in the last few posts (plus a few more boat specific reasons) . Didn't get a chance to do any opens this year and I don't suppose next year will be any different. Selling it shortly.

I suggest trying a faster asy boat before giving up on the concept.
I think the RS400 is about the slowest asy I'd bother with, although 200's look fun in a gale and a lot of people enjoy slower or smaller boats, so each to his own. Plus of course the smaller asy's are great for kids learning.
But 200's and slower seem to not quite make it pay, lots of hoovering from side to side and not much downwind progress.

I suspect Rs800 sailors say the same about us sometimes.
If you can get a ride on an 800 it will probably change your view.

I've got nothing against RS200's they are off my radar as we are too big and heavy.
They used to give really good fleet racing with some good people to race.
Their PY tells the story though.

From my experience of finishing races after 'string failure' and 'rigging kites wrong' I reckon a 400 with no kite should rate about 1020? Well, between 1000 and 1050.
So the asy is worth between 5 and 10% of elapsed time all around the course. That's a lot IMHO.
To put in context, it makes the 400 faster than a similar sized olde worlde kite boat with a trapeze.

There is plenty of evidence around that suggests that the RS400 sits on the crossroads of whether an assymetric spinnaker works for you or not. Boats faster than the 400 are, as has been said time and time again on here, able to use increased boat speed gained by a small luff, to build the boat speed to a point where they can bear away further and further without lowering boat speed until they are not too far from sailing dead down wind, but at a significantly higher speed. Boats slower than the 400 and some would include the 400, will not maintain be able to bear away sufficiently far without loosing too much speed. As a result they either sail huge distances and get to the mark later, or they sail deep and slow and get their later. The reason for them sailing slow when sailing deep is that the assymetric spinnaker cannot be adequately projected to windward, and thus is blanketed by the mainsail so is hugely inefficient when compared to a conventional kite. Just check the size of most assymetric kites versus their conventional brethren, they are significantly bigger!
The main reasons for assymetrics on slower boats are: 1) fashionable, 2) easy to use.
So if you want an easy to use boat with a spinnaker and you are mainly interested in class racing then great.
That said on typical inland course where every mark on the reservoir is used 200s seem to work very well.

This is getting jumbled and rambly now, but I'll say that if you sail on larger courses where you mostly have a reasonable downwind leg, then fast assymetrics are great, but I wouldnt want to sail one around a small pond!

Originally posted by craiggo There is plenty of evidence around that suggests that the RS400 sits on the crossroads of whether an assymetric spinnaker works for you or not.....

I think it works over a certain wind range.
Compare with a Merlin.
They have more sitting out power, a highly developed carbon rig.
All-up weight pretty similar.
They are a little shorter.
5% PY difference speaks volumes.

There are of course a whole bunch of asy boats which fail to deliver IMHO.
Buzz, RS500 etc they've got a trapeze yet we have to give them time on PY?

But part of the point is it's actually a lot of fun sailing at 15 knots instead of 10, even if you are not winning the race by doing so. Takes my mind off work and stuff anyway.

But in light shifty air I wonder if a pole kite would be quicker.
And if it's really windy maybe on some courses. Possibly not in our hands though.

the trouble is, assymetrics need to be fast and sailed on open water, but most sailors in this country sail on small to medium puddles where slow quick tacking boats rule.

Originally posted by RS400atC Originally posted by ex laser the trouble is, assymetrics need to be fast and sailed on open water, but most sailors in this country sail on small to medium puddles where slow quick tacking boats rule. When you add up the big puddles and the coastal clubs, I'm not sure the 'small puddles' are that much in the majority. A decent reservoir is big enough for an RS400.