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Curtains for Assymetrics?
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 11:27am
I think a lot of folks get blinded by their amateur science- obviously we all use apparent wind, and downwind sailing has always been about the angles, not the rhumline.  The problem really boils down to the fact that it pays to soak really low (or just not use the kite and sail lower, or on the non-kiteable rhumline of a reach).  This applies mainly for the asymmetric boats with smaller kites where they lack the righting moment to really squeeze out the performance needed.  

However folks bought those boats on the basis they'd transform offwind into screaming kite reaches and a popular misnomer that DDW would become tactical again.... it always was, even if you followed the heard on the rhumline and had the occasional luffing handbagging to spice it up.    I guess it has made the tactics more obvious, in so much as the best tactic is to, quite often, leave it in the sock- especially on puddles RTC... which is fairly self defeating for the concept of asymmetric sailing.  Cry
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 11:51am
Handicaps on the sea......bought a 200 at the start of the season. Disappointing in the extreme for all the reasons highlighted in the last few posts (plus a few more boat specific reasons) . Didn't get a chance to do any opens this year and I don't suppose next year will be any different. Selling it shortly.
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 11:59am
Originally posted by laser193713

I have been watching and reading this for some time now. I struggle to understand this "apparent wind effect" chat. Are you really saying that most boats sail on true wind and only a few can sail on apparent wind. Errrr... fatal error in your physics here. I hate to break it to you all but every boat sails on apparent wind, just some the angle between apparent wind and true wind is greater due to increased hull speeds. 

I don't understand where you draw the line on this effect, there isnt a line in reality, it is just how sailing works... if everyone sailed AC72s would you say that a 49er is not an apparent wind boat. After all, the apparent wind angle on a 72 never goes above around 10 degrees, even downwind. On a 49er it generally hovers around 90 degrees, as a guess. 

Perhaps this will help dispel this tedious belief that some boats are apparent wind boats and some boats aren't. If it is just a loosely used term then I really struggle to understand how some boats are and some boats aren't? Is it a fixed difference in angle between TWA and AWA? Someone please explain!? 

All boats sail in apparent wind. We all know that. The apparent wind effect referred to is about boats that have sufficient sail area, sail carrying power, and are light enough such when heading downwind you're never in soak mode - heating up get/keep on the plane and then coming down as the apparent moves forwards is always the fastest way downwind, no matter what the TWS. 
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:03pm
Unless something's changed this summer whilst I've not been there/been not sailing due to a broken boat, Grafham's main handicap fleet is the assymetric one, sailing mainly W/L
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:04pm
Al, don't let facts get in the way of a good thread.

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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:05pm
There are, of course, many more boats than the 49er and Tornado that do this - maybe he was referring to the Olympic boats of the time?

From the MPS to I14's, loads of modern cats, the 800 - basically all the boats that the Rotomoulds of this world are trying to look vaguely like in order to sell the image without the scariness and difficulty.

The cruising boats like this also have the purpose of being easy. It is the slow racing boats that I struggle with the basic concept of, but as they make up some of the best Nats fleets around, lots of people must love the concept of soaking.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Al, don't let facts get in the way of a good thread.

quite right... but interesting to see Rutland's results- no dedicated W/L racing for slower asymmetrics.

http://rutlandsc.co.uk/clubresults/2013/SUMMER%20PM%20completed.htm

http://rutlandsc.co.uk/clubresults/2013/13102013%20AUTUMN%20AM%20SERIES.htm

and you'd have have great fun chunting upwind in a hiker against this lot at Grafham...


When choosing a new club it pays to really dig down into what is actually happening, not what is on their website and/or what people seem to think they know about what's happening.

I always thought there was a proper fleet of RS100s at Hayling... however the results suggest otherwise.

Look at the individual races and you'd see you're not guaranteed anyone to race against in the same class...




Edited by yellowwelly - 18 Oct 13 at 12:25pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:18pm
At my club we tried W/L for a while, but the RS200 and RS400 sailors got bored with them and decided they wanted to sail 4 mark courses with the other classes.
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 12:21pm
Absolutely right James I would love it they have a load of 400's.  Best boat for us to race against, very close speed wise so I would be really happy to be racing them

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Posts: 198 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 13 at 1:20pm
Interesting reading...we've now got a growing fleet of B14's at Netley SC (started with 2 at the beginning of 2013 now we have 9 and will be double figures for 2014) and we're going to be doing whenever possible ww/lw courses.
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