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    Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 10:59pm
In an earlier post Daniel said "Nobody gets to the very top at senior level internationally without having, (among other things,) a real sailors brain." Interesting point, but what does that mean and can it be trained or does that have to be innate? I suppose key is the ability to compute and react correctly to lots of different simultaneous inputs: effects of tide, wind shifts, positions of other boats, tactics, rules, special judgements etc. Doesn't that come with practice and experience?

BA is said to have great skill in smelling out where the most favourable wind is. Special aptitude or practise?

Some are brilliant at tuning a boat. Does that come through hours on the water testing and marking different settings or does it come through some innate skill?

The "Horse whisperer" was said to have an unique understanding of animals that were all individuals, but boats are inanimate. "Boat Whispering" is a training manual!

Of course you need commitment and determination to succeed at the highest level, but I think I'm still with Matthew Syed on this that it is more nurture than nature. And as with many sports, the younger you start it the better you are going to be later on if you stick with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:11pm
To my mind its a mixture of both... I used to sail forward hand in my two handers and observed a number of helms, and there was no doubt in my mind that some were naturally talented above others.

However natural talent is not enough without the training, and training is not enough without the natural talent.

Regrettably as a helm I don't seem to have that much natural talent, which is quite irritating in that I reckon I know roughly what to do, it seems to look right from the outside, but somehow the boat doesn't go as fast in the right direction as some of the others... However I don't find that precludes me enjoying sailing the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:18pm
I think it was John Whitmore that pointed out that if sailing were something that depended largely on physical aptitude then we'd all sail noticeably better on one tack than the other!

My belief is that it is a sport that requires a well developed intellect, and that "aptitude" is largely about whether your brain fits with dealing with all the complex problems that have to be prioritised and solved.

Some people seem to have an intellect that is pre-programmed to solve these problems, and clearly they have a head start on the rest of us!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by ohFFsake

..if sailing were something that depended largely on physical aptitude then we'd all sail noticeably better on one tack than the other!

Er
doesn't everyone then?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by ohFFsake

..if sailing were something that depended largely on physical aptitude then we'd all sail noticeably better on one tack than the other!

Er
doesn't everyone then?


everyone except you Graeme, you sail badly on both tacks.

LOL
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 11:57pm
One day wing wang, One day, even if i have to come up and bother some wood to get you...

I have a sailors brain, just don't happen to have a dingyist's body to make use of it properly...

Edited by iGRF - 15 Oct 13 at 11:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 8:51am
I'm pretty sure I have a "natura"l aptitude for sailing, over a limited set of conditions. I'm great on confined waters, lightish winds - which are the conditions I grew up with. Put me on the sea in waves, wind and tide, and no amount of natural aptitude can make up for a combination of lack of experience in such conditions and the scardy brain freeze I seem to have.

But even in the conditions where I'm OK, I know I could be better, if I was willing to spend more time doing things over and over again, like I get the Juniors doing. But without company for it, I get bored too quickly. We have Junior group, ladies group, sailability group, but no group for decent sailors wanting to do something other than the 3 races per Sunday and then go home. I've taken more and more to going out playing on a Sunday, not racing - so many more tacks, gybes, whatever else needs work. Having rupertson in the same type of boat helps for that, but a group would be much better.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 9:36am
I agree - sailing has become a strange  sport in that nobody, except an elite group, train.

When I sailed keelboats in France we only sailed 4 or 5 regattas per year. The rest of the time a small group of boats we went out with a coach and trained. Hard work, physically and mentally but after 50 tacks and 20 spinnaker hoist/gybe/takedown under the critical eye of a coach we felt we had improved. The first beer tasted fantastic!

Club racing does not, in general, improve your skills.
Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 10:50am
Originally posted by JimC

To my mind its a mixture of both... I used to sail forward hand in my two handers and observed a number of helms, and there was no doubt in my mind that some were naturally talented above others.

However natural talent is not enough without the training, and training is not enough without the natural talent.

Regrettably as a helm I don't seem to have that much natural talent, which is quite irritating in that I reckon I know roughly what to do, it seems to look right from the outside, but somehow the boat doesn't go as fast in the right direction as some of the others... However I don't find that precludes me enjoying sailing the boat.


That could be me talking there Jim.......sadly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 11:02am
I like to train, but it's something I have always done, so I guess it's force of habit - and probably why my body is giving up bit by injured bit.

I will shortly be starting the usual autumn Saturday morning race training sessions.  These are for all comers, and although it's mostly the fresh out of L2 adults that come, as well as keen juniors, we do also get some regular racers.  What we don't get are those who consider themselves top of the pecking order - those who go to opens, sail at the club and do quite well.  Unsurprisngly the mid fleet racers and juniors who do come to training are slowly but surely nipping at their heels.


the same, but different...

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