Open Bic

Originally posted by r2d2 and its not just GRF has some of these views - I only say this so that the debate isn't just ignored because its assumed that there is just one guy with odd views who should perhaps be humoured and ignored.

It's certainly not just GRF. However, with respect for those who hold different opinions, there doesn't seem to be many people (any?) who hold "Grumpstyle" views and are prepared to back it up with evidence such as numerical information on trends in the sport, studies, surveys or historical data, or valid analogies from other popular participant sports.

Edited by Chris 249 - 08 Aug 13 at 4:55am

Perhaps the RYA  (or somesuch) should have an R and D department to follow up ideas and developments. If I were a manufacturer I would be reluctant to develop a new idea because the only way to recover my investment would be to sell the developed project in numbers. Badly put, but you know what I mean.

Originally posted by r2d2 People in this thread have already questioned whether the effects you claim are not more likely related to a divergence in the number of classes,

Its not enormously hard to do this sort of research, but the trouble is presenting it in a meaningful way is serious work. Heck, YY present a lot of it in the racing classes review, and the PY data is also increasingly useful.

As an example I maintain a spreadsheet of the data from racing classes review, excluding catamarans. Its largely complete going back to the 80s. There are 140 odd class listed, of which about 50 have dropped off the RCR completely, and another 4 or 5 are obviously moribund, with no boats being built and single figure at best Champs entries.

Go back to the 60s and there were books produced with classes listed, and there were loads of them. So there's evidence that there is *no* increase in the number of active classes, and I think its rather the reverse.

You can get stats about sailor particpation and so on from reading reports, and try and number crunch them, but at the moment I have other priorities. A number of years ago I tried to do an evaluation of factors leading to popularity of high performance two handers for instance, and after about two weeks of evenings gave up, having found nothing in design and so on, which was what I was interested in. The only thing that came out was that the more women who sail in a class the bigger their turnouts tended to be, but I could find no correlation between much about the design of the boat and the female participation.

An R&D department for the RYA is certainly an interesting idea, but how would it be funded? A 50quid levy on every new boat built in the UK? A couple of thousand on club affiliation fees? Think I'd rather do without! The motor trade has MIRA, which I understand was originally goverment funded, but I don't see a QUANGO being set up for sailing dinghies!


Edited by JimC - 08 Aug 13 at 9:16am

Jim C " The only thing that came out was that the more women who sail in a class the bigger their turnouts tended to be, but I could find no correlation between much about the design of the boat and the female participation".... if you go back to the mid 1960s, one of the best ever Class Association funded advertising campaigns was run by the Fireball call - built partly on the success here in the UK of Peter and Christine Sandy. The UKFA ad showed a 'young lady' out on the wire and clearly having lots of fun - if ever there was way to bring females into a class then this was it! The number of girls sailing Fireballs certainly added another dimension to class events!!

i-tick.....an interesting idea about a centralised R&D unit but.... the RYA isn't the place for it - indeed, one would have to suggest that the UK is not the place for it either! We may have a great record in Olympic competition but in terms of boats, you have to go back to 1948 and the Fairey Firefly to find an British dinghy design at the games (stress dinghy as of course the Cats had the Tornado)

Chris 249.... I consider myself lucky that I knew Jack Knights well enough to be on first name terms. But would there be a place for him in today's world - I somehow doubt it. As a journalist, Jack had a wonderfully keen eye for detail and a nose that could smell bullsh*t from 100m or more - and he wasn't afraid to prick the egos of those who he felt had let themselves or the sport down. We can but imagine what he'd make of some of the goings on in the sport today BUT - would he have that same platform for expressing his views. A while back I did an article that was critical (but very mildly so) of the RYA and some of their 'behind the bike shed' dealings. A well known and respected Editor took one look, said how much they liked it, then sadly rejected it. The RYA, like a number of other 'big names' have so much muscle with their advertising budgets that magazines will just not carry anything negative. What's more, these big names are not afraid to use their clout - when I made a comment about a certain (non trapeze) single hander being rushed out to market before being properly sorted I was asked to retract - but as I believed that I was right I stuck to my guns - the mag then 'lost' 3 months worth of advertising revenue from that customer! So, Jack Knights wanting to tell it as he saw it - I just don't think the mags would risk carrying his articles.

Now this IS a factor - the fact that there is no voice for the sport, no counterbalance to the marketing messages.
Back in the 1950-1970s dinghy racing was still pretty much a 'cottage industy' but today more and more power resides in a smaller number of big concerns - but that is another topic for another day!
D

Please note, I do not stress the RYA as a development authority.....it was just an existing authority to use in my theory. I like the idea of a levy on manufacturers to fund development. This organisation would not produce a 'prescribed' boat but would look into the future without the need for profit funding. I believe that Dan Holmans Punk is a special and attractive bit of kit produced as a hobby but should he wish to put it into production massive recouces would be needed with no guarantee of financial success. No one dare take the risk, who can blame them, so we carry on with our Olympic trend setters sailing out of date boats.