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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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i tick ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 15 Jul 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 93 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Aug 13 at 8:42am |
Perhaps the RYA (or somesuch) should have an R and D department to follow up ideas and developments. If I were a manufacturer I would be reluctant to develop a new idea because the only way to recover my investment would be to sell the developed project in numbers. Badly put, but you know what I mean.
If this department developed a new radical craft and then allowed manufacturers to build it starting at a set date then introduced it to the pinnacle of the sport, the Olympics? |
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r2d2 ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
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Hi Chris
well its an apparently reasonable challenge that you set and, perhaps I am wrong, but I think you are assuming I am arguing the "higher and faster is better for all" argument - I am not. What I see is no more than what has been pointed out by others on this thread already that the dinghy sailing world suffers from a sort of over conservatism (small c) caused by the dominance of a few old classes (e.g. Laser, Oppie) that at some point (soon I hope or it will be too late for me) will inevitably have to be replaced by newer and better things. The problem is that their huge numbers hold back development and improvement. So I'm not quite sure what data could be used to measure this difference between the world we have and a conceptual world without such over-dominant classes. It a bit like asking what would have happened if we had taken another wicket just before tea? we will never know. And unless I have missed it, where is the data you have presented to support your argument (whatever that is??). People in this thread have already questioned whether the effects you claim are not more likely related to a divergence in the number of classes, rather than to simpler supposed relationships between any of boat age/ease of sailing/slowness and sailor numbers.
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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For example, if someone felt that speed and new classes attracted people then they should be able to show (for example) that "X" new catamaran classes have been launched recently, that performance therefore increased "Y", and that the number of people sailing cats increased "Z", or at least point to some trends or general indications about that. The stuff I can find (from diverse sources such as Australian cat regattas and the fluctuation in various types of Hobie in the USA) indicates no such trend.
It would be fascinating if you or someone with your views could scratch up some hard data so this discussion could be balanced by factual evidence from the "other side".
Edited by Chris 249 - 08 Aug 13 at 4:55am |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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I have Jack Knights' article about the IYRU 5m dinghy, but no scanner. It did look like an amazing boat for its day.
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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But fast and high performance* ISN'T difficult to use. Anyone can buy an old Hobie 20 and beat just about any dinghy to death while lounging around on the tramp with a beer. For some reason you abuse cats but they can be fantastic for what you want - and yet most people choose not to sail them because they prefer a different feel.
Fast and high performance in dinghies can be hard to use, but didn't your little experiment show that it's not as simple to create a fast-but-easy boat as you claim it is? Scows do hold a lot of potential but they have been widely accepted in most parts of the dinghy sailing world for decades, so it's not conservatism or Luddism that is holding them back.
You can actually create a high-performance monohull dinghy or skiff that can be used by typical club-level crews from 0-25 knots. The downside is that you need two masts and three sets of sails to cover the range, or a very long skinny hull, or big crew. And doesn't the RS800 come close to what you want?
Boards are not fast and simple, by the way. Try to find a board that can cover the wind range a good dinghy can cover, while being faster and/or easier to sail. Go to Boards mag's forum and see how many veteran windsurfers can't even do a basic move like a gybe without dropping off the plane.
You assume that a rig like a Radial's is inferior, but that's just from one viewpoint. I can be pretty unbiased here, IMHO, since I have had fully-battened roachy mains since the first boat I ever owned, and I still own boards and boats with both dacron pinheads and film full-battens, including one designed by Bethwaites.
A Radial rig is fast and simple to rig (I carry my club/training sails rolled around the mast), lasts longer at club/cruising level due to the dacron cloth, and is lighter for the cost. For some classes and sailors those are perfectly reasonable tradeoffs for the slight reduction in performance. If other sailors choose NOT to take those tradeoffs that's fine, as long as they respect those of us with different tastes or in different positions. It's not being a luddite, it's using what is fun. As Rupert said, people have very different tastes so why not respect that?
By the way, are you into modern alcopops instead of "oldskool" beer and wine? Are you into 21st C bit tunes and live coding rather than old man's guitar based rock? If you prefer the latter, are you a luddite or just someone who may not personally like some of the latest stuff? Edited by Chris 249 - 08 Aug 13 at 2:22am |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Isn't that what's going on now, putting kids in some weird ass box with a gaff rig? Because adults think it's right because it's what happened to them.. ![]() |
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Whilst I'm all for trying something different with adult boat choices, but putting a kid in some weird ass boat some adult decides is cooler is just cruel.
Let's have that hypothetical line up... but under the proviso the Oppy team can be led by its ex sailors, complete with their olympic medals, polished Team GBR pro sailing mantra and immaculate shiny teeth. And on the O'pan Bin line you can bring their champ, along with his guide dog, basin haircut and ASDA trainers. |
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rodney ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 915 |
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Moving back a bit! I was not trying to be critical of the Bic but felt a need to defend the traditional classes which IGFR is so often critical of. IMO the traditional classes I (Solo, Ent, GP etc) are the backbone of UK dinghy sailing.
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Rodney Cobb
Suntouched Sailboats Limited http://www.suntouched.co.uk [EMAIL=rodney@suntouched.co.uk">rodney@suntouched.co.uk |
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i tick ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 15 Jul 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 93 |
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You're talking Tasar there sunshine, well 68kg.......
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Falling over at the dock has very little real world relevance to a 2 person boat.
one person holds the boat, the other deals with the trolley. How hard that is bears little relation to whether the thing will fall over on its own. Your displacement of 32kg combined with a useful waterline length means a narrow waterline beam is almost inevitable. Dial in the weight of a carbon mast and a sail or two and the CofG height is going to be considerable. Better design it to sit happily on its side, supported by the rack and the top spreaders? Or design a cat?
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