Open Bic

Back in the 20's and 30's, the YRA saw it as part of their remit to create development classes which fitted current designs within them. I can't see the modern RYA doing the same thing.

However, if you want to start a new Box Rule class, it couldn't be simpler. Just select parameters which suit a group of people, and get building. I guess you could kick start it by making the rule fit several already existing classes - say, the ISO, Alt0, Laser 4000, or Lightning, Streaker, Flash - but more likely that would simply muddy the long-term waters for possible short term numbers.

Then you have to decide how extreme you want the rule to take boats and set limitations to match. Seems to have worked for the F18.

Chris 249 and Jim C...... I'm not sure that there is such clear evidence of 'single causal factors' at work here - indeed, the work I've been doing suggests that you've a lot of complex and inter related reasons for the change (though I don't disagree at all with the changes you've identified).
One of the changes that I've seen over the past 2 or 3 years is the way in which the 'traditional' classes have regained a great deal of the ground they lost in the early days of the SMODs. The Merlins in particular are going from strength to strength, not only numbers are up but the increases are rich in top class helms who all seem to be wanting to join the fleet. Recently I was at a well know sailing club that has an impressive 'glory board' listing successful helms - now the last time I was there the dinghy park was full of RS 400s, 800s and 300s and 700s for the singlehanders. That same dinghy park now is full of Fireballs, Merlins, Solos and Contenders...so something is happening there.

There have of course been casualties - the Hornet is struggling big time, the 470 doesn't really exist much outside of the Olympic scene and the 505 is a shadow of it's former position as 'top dog'. But there is also the danger here that we're looking at this issue from a UK centric viewpoint; cross the channel and you'll find that boats such as the 470 and 505 are not just strong but gaining numbers and influence

I'm not saying that the stats are wrong BUT - I think there is a far more complex picture here in the UK that needs to be understood. The trouble here in the UK is that if you stick your head above the parapet and say the 'bleeding obvious' you'll get shouted down as negative and a nay sayer! To me, the lack of a sensible dialogue about the situation within the sport is a far greater problem than the actual classes we sail (or don't sail)
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Originally posted by Chris 249 The stats I'm working on seem pretty clear - the drop-off in numbers at national title level is mainly caused by the fall in performance ODs and development classes and in slow "family" boats at the other extreme. The Laser/Opti etc are not the culprits, they are the survivors to emulate.

Exactly what I see as well: the sport is focussing on the middle. I'd have thought that the youngsters who did who did campaigns in 29ers from my club would be wanting to sail high performance boats, but with a few exceptions (hello Nicola) it just doesn't seem to be happening very much.

It would be good to try an 'acid' test, line up a dozen Bics and a dozen Boxes, get a classroom of kids and tell them today we're going to learn sailing which of these would you like to use.

Then ask sail instructors the same question.

Sure enough at the end of the day the kids would get rammed into the boxes simply to preserve the status quo which is why things are the way they are and y'all are for the most part blinkered in the view that the way this sport is, is perfectly OK when anyone coming new to it just rolls their eyes again and again at the mess it's in.

Originally posted by r2d2 Originally posted by Do Different Sounds like the only argument for Oppies is there's a lot of them out there, that of course is a valid argument but how long can it be used? the Laser is exactly the same problem no progress = stagnation and a dying sport

What????

Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Aug 13 at 8:20am