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Andymac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 May 13 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by JohnJack

I would have thought a Fireball wouldn't have enough freeboard for a pole placed anywhere but on the deck, in which case the foredeck isn't that flat. Also if you wanted a canting pole there isn't much in the was of beam.
Also the class is far too established for a change like this, there would be too much resistance to change.
IMHO, and have been thinking about this for a while. A Hornet would be an excellent base for this type of experiment.
You already have a bit shoot and half front tank (unlike the tube on an Fb) which you could mount your pole on, plenty of beam to cant the pole to a point where you could almost be square running. They are a small class that could be revolutionized and may jump at an idea like this.


It just begs to have a pole out the front, also the jib attaches behind the chute so easy to launch recover a big kite
 
Or alternatively, try out an assy rig on an old 5o5... oh hang on a minute, isn't that how the Alto came about?
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by oldarnus

Originally posted by pondmonkey

 
  Some might go off and try it, and then realise that actually asymmetric kites offer a rather limited scope when it comes to club sailing, unless of course they are suitable flat/small like the RS200
You're still stuck in the 90's mate, you just don't realise it...

Not true. This not living in the 90's, this is learning from the 90's

As you say, an asymmetric is OK on a 200, so why not on other designs-because Bethwaite was a straight line man and so only believed in speed and big kites. The SMOD manufactureres cashed in on the fashion and left us, yes, with all those rubbish classes with big kites, or smaller kites without swinging poles that litter dinghy parks since they are unsuitable for club RTC courses.

Go for it Graeme. I have thought about the various hulls that have been suggested, and so far my views are perhaps the FB or as JohnJack suggests the Hornet! 
 


I see where you're going, but the market response has been mute.  The RS200 had a square running system long before the Asbo came around.  The class voted it out.  L4000 has a wing-wang... that boat is dead, replaced with RS800s and RS500s - neither of which favour a squaring system.

I don't doubt the Alto 'works' to compromise this.  I just don't see the take up or the market really wanting it. 

We've had 500s come and go at our club.  But the Fireball remains the far more popular choice- with mixed age bracket crews loving getting involved.  I just don't see adding an asymmetric would add any value- it didn't before, it won't again.  The only one thing you could do to 'turbo' something is add a wire to an RS400... save the knees, the scaffolding would probably take it.

But all credit for Graeme for investing more time and money at fools folly... however despite, what 10 years messing around in dinghies, has he ever once invested in an established, successful class that offers some local fleet racing?  


Edited by pondmonkey - 24 May 13 at 12:55pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Agreed that Hornet pic (only just clicked it) not a boat or name I'm familiar with or likely to come across cheap in this part of the world.

Why Assy? because it is easy and if we want to attract newcomers like me, the sport needs to be easy to train new adults to do. This time last year Trev had never so much set foot on a boat, now he's complaining that we don't win on handicap, you wont achieve that in one of your complex Symmetric birds nests.

I don't even know what to do in a symmettric boat and don't want to thank you, you're all dead and dying now go away somewhere & lie down, it's like return of the zombies here...

Edited by iGRF - 24 May 13 at 12:52pm
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by iGRF

 This time last year Trev had never so much set foot on a boat, now he's complaining that we don't win on handicap,  

hmm, he steps foot in a boat and expects to winning the year after, and if he doesn't, it's the boat's fault.... I wonder who his mentor has been?

Perhaps you'd both be better with Laser Radials- we'll even let you keep that 'favourable' inland handicap  LOL
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Come now GRF, I'm sure your not as simple as you make out.

My boys were using a symmetric spinnaker on our Mirror when they were 5 years old - it really is very simple.

Why not force yourself to sit at the front of a slow wooden boat for a couple of hours and you'll see they really are very simple to use.

Armed with this new skill and knowledge you might then be able to design the ultimate 'all courses and conditions' handicap racer.
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Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 12:58pm
You can get Hornets pretty cheap where ever you go. Not too many of them however, mainly on the South Coast & Essex. A friend of mine does them up, onto his third, never paid a dime for one. 
Most of them are composite with a flat wooden deck. A coat or two of 2 pot and it is as good as plastic.
3 on Apollo Duck, two for less than £500, the other is relatively new, completely open cockpit for £1500 (looks a bit like an old I14 pre racks)
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey


I wonder who his mentor has been?


He's had a good and well rounded introduction to sailing thanks to my ever so insightful education.

And very enthusiastic he has now become, despite the bandits, bad boats, crap courses, mad women, squalls, storms and all the other slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that have beset him in his quest.

I have guided him through the valley of the shadow...

Edited by iGRF - 24 May 13 at 1:02pm
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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by GarethT

Come now GRF, I'm sure your not as simple as you make out.

My boys were using a symmetric spinnaker on our Mirror when they were 5 years old - it really is very simple.

Why not force yourself to sit at the front of a slow wooden boat for a couple of hours and you'll see they really are very simple to use.

Armed with this new skill and knowledge you might then be able to design the ultimate 'all courses and conditions' handicap racer.


Having just gone from symmetric to assy I'm starting to doubt my wisdom Confused.I'm missing the versatility. I'd describe it as a step sideways rather than a step forward. It's where the class racing is though and there is a growing fleet of 200s at the club so looking forward to that aspect

...no doubt it'll grow on me.

We did consider the FB but I just don't like the look of them, a great boat no doubt but ugly IMO (eye of the beholder and all that) I didn't hink it would be too good on the south coast either.

Tinkering is good fun though so best of luck to you. What donor assy were you considering?

Edited by transient - 24 May 13 at 2:11pm
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SUGmeister View Drop Down
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Posts: 265 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SUGmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by JohnJack

You can get Hornets pretty cheap where ever you go. Not too many of them however, mainly on the South Coast & Essex. A friend of mine does them up, onto his third, never paid a dime for one. 
Most of them are composite with a flat wooden deck. A coat or two of 2 pot and it is as good as plastic.
3 on Apollo Duck, two for less than £500, the other is relatively new, completely open cockpit for £1500 (looks a bit like an old I14 pre racks)



I am absolutely convinced that I recall that the Dutch Hornet fleet morphed into a class with a big fathead mainsail, twin trapezes and asymmetric spinnaker. Photos of it looked odd but this was in the early days of twin trap asys in the UK and thoze crazy hollanders had nothing of their own to play with. Probably didn't last long and probably killed the Dutch class outright.

Scanned the web and can find nothing to substantiate this. Even so if the Dutch, in my head, can do it then so can Graeme
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