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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fireball Questions
    Posted: 24 May 13 at 8:55am
I've worked out why we went over, he didn't uncleat the jib, it's a self tacker and has proven in the past big enough to take us over if left cleated, the main was out and the boom in the water once your up on your ear.

We're just inexperienced as a team and as you all know and I've said often enough it's the crew that wins or loses it.

I'm going to have a look at that furball close up, see if we can't drag those luddites into the 21st century, albeit screaming.

I'm not looking to get rid of the Alto, just see if something else could be cobbled together that would suit a lighter crew in a blow.

The handicap doesn't bother me, they are letting us use 925 now, not that it does us any good and he does get discouraged when to him we are so far ahead, ashore on the trailer quite literally last night yet still finished last. It was chilly so no watching public to placate him with my normal 'no-one sees what goes on in the clubhouse on the spreadsheet, they just see you coming ashore first' and although he keeps smiling I can see he's becoming dispirited especially when he's done well and not got anything wrong.

Edited by iGRF - 24 May 13 at 8:57am
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 9:17am
get a 420
the same, but different...

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 9:18am
Get something you can class race against at your home club.
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 9:18am
welcome to handicap racing.... I remember doing well in my Phantom once (you know, one of those rare occasions when you call all the shifts upwind spot on and you somehow also sail well downwind despite 20 consistent years of losing ground as soon as you turn the weather mark...)  Only to be faced with the usual 'it's a bandit' accusations once the spreadsheet was in.  Wouldn't it be nice if these things truly didn't affect us and how much we enjoy that time on the water?

Compare that to the first time I was in the pack with our Solo fleet and still managed to stay there by the end.  All I got was congratulations and someone saying I was definitely quicker offwind than normal.  Our Laser fleet 'do encouragement' by routine, probably better than us in the Solos.  That's why they are growing massively, despite the wider trends in falling memberships in other areas of the club/sport.  And you won't find a better spirited bunch of sailors than the MPS guys for ensuring the bottom of the fleet are given every possible tip, technique and trick to get them further up at the next event.        

So it's not about the boat or what sails it has or hasn't got- it's about the people.  You all need to have a serious sit down and find out what you want from your sailing.  Sounds to me like a bunch of disparate sailors 'cruising in company' in their favourite chariots around a course of buoys with a start; not a proper sailboat race.  Fine if you accept that for what it is, not fine if you have any vague notion of competitiveness in your bones.


Edited by pondmonkey - 24 May 13 at 9:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 9:46am
"I'm not looking to get rid of the Alto, just see if something else could be cobbled together that would suit a lighter crew in a blow". 

In a blow the most important thing is for everything to work smoothly and easily, do you not think that life is too short and sailing time too limited spend time cobbling something together. The Alto is a sorted boat that you really like, is it really worthwhile spending time and money on a project when you could be sailing instead?
 
"The handicap doesn't bother me, they are letting us use 925 now, not that it does us any good and he does get discouraged when to him we are so far ahead, ashore on the trailer quite literally last night yet still finished last. It was chilly so no watching public to placate him with my normal 'no-one sees what goes on in the clubhouse on the spreadsheet, they just see you coming ashore first' and although he keeps smiling I can see he's becoming dispirited especially when he's done well and not got anything wrong".

If you are not bothered by results why not simply work on what you've got, I and a lot of others sail classes we are too light for, but there is a lot of quiet satisfaction to be had in going out in a blow and getting it round the course by good technique even if a little behind the heavies. What I and the other lightweights I know do in a blow is, dump the rig right back, ease the board up a lot, maybe even pull on the clew flattener, stuff the jib cars right forward and sail free 'n' fast. It's a lot of fun ((-;

Best of luck whichever way you go, keep us posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 9:49am
Edit. Edit. Alert. Whoops typo, jib carrs right back.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 10:55am
Originally posted by iGRF

I've worked out why we went over, he didn't uncleat the jib, it's a self tacker and has proven in the past big enough to take us over if left cleated, the main was out and the boom in the water once your up on your ear.

Does the self tacking cleat need lowering by 50mm or so?. The standard position is now lower and  most likely for the reason you experienced. One reason the jib is self-tacking is to minimise capsizing when the jib is not unjammed, a common reason for capsizing when the jib is large. However in a good breeze and with largish waves it can still take you over if left jammed and not  previously eased.
You don't give up when you know you have a winner!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 10:56am
I don't get why no-one else wonders what bringing a Fireball up to date could achieve, that's what always puzzles me about dinghyists and their stuck in the status quo rut.

What is everybody worried about, if I f**ked it up you can all go - there told you so - but if it turned out better..

Oh I get it now, you'd all have to buy a new boat.

Can't have that now can we, that would be like making a Contender down to 50 kgs all up weight.
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 11:00am
Go for it Graeme! If you can afford it and don't want to have a good resale value then that is up to you.

I think there have been some positive suggestions here on reworking the foredeck.
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 13 at 11:00am
Originally posted by oldarnus


Does the self tacking cleat need lowering by 50mm or so?. The standard position is now lower...


Is it now? When did that happen? I have a problem anyway that big metal hoop I use as a Spinnaker chute interacts with the foot of the jib and not in a good way. You know I don't like your system (nor do some other Alto owners I've spoken to fyi)it is lighter, but it's still behind the jib and although giving a lfat surface for the jib doesn't help the deploying or collection of the kite imv.
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