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Phil_1193 View Drop Down
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Posts: 78 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil_1193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Published Hull Weights
    Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 8:03am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

We had a polyester phantom that was 14kgs overweight based on a designed weight of 61kgs. Definitely worth selling that one on, and no I can't remember the sail number


Don't know if you remember but at the 2010 nationals every Phantom entered was weighed.

There was a polyester one there that came in at 90kgs (can tell you the name but not the number!), same as a couple of wooden ones!!

At the time the brand new Ovington ones were 3-4kgs overweight, but 12 months later a new Ovington one was weighed and it was 3-4 kgs under.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac


So moving a ratchet block from the swivel jammer on the hull to the boom to permit off-the-boom sheeting - something you could do to a club boat in 5 minutes if you wished - would put people off racing a class, whereas knowing their boat may be 10-20kg heavier won't have put them off in the least?


The success of the RS 200 and 400, not to mention the Laser as a racing class would appear to bear that theory out.

Throw the roto-tubs into the mix and it's painfully obvious that an off-the-shelf-get-in-and-go-race class has a definite appeal to a section of our market. The majority that are bought privately go to new sailors who may move on to what we perceive as a "real" class after a couple of years.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 8:39am
Why are the classes not "real", Paramedic?

If more people are sailing them, more people buying them, doesn't that make "our" world the unreal one?
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Phil_1193


Originally posted by maxibuddah

We had a polyester phantom that was 14kgs overweight based on a designed weight of 61kgs. Definitely worth selling that one on, and no I can't remember the sail number
Don't know if you remember but at the 2010 nationals every Phantom entered was weighed.There was a polyester one there that came in at 90kgs (can tell you the name but not the number!), same as a couple of wooden ones!!At the time the brand new Ovington ones were 3-4kgs overweight, but 12 months later a new Ovington one was weighed and it was 3-4 kgs under.


The 14kg one was weighed at Llandudno nats some years back. Yes I was at some Phil but I didn't hear about that one, that's even more impressive. Must have been down to repairs, what did they use? Lead sheets?

If an ovi was 4kgs under how did they sort the correctors on that, you are only allowed 3kgs.brass fitting or two on the foredeck I suppose

Edited by maxibuddah - 22 Apr 13 at 9:07am
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Throw the roto-tubs into the mix and it's painfully obvious that an off-the-shelf-get-in-and-go-race class has a definite appeal to a section of our market. The majority that are bought privately go to new sailors who may move on to what we perceive as a "real" class after a couple of years.
Indeed, "...move on..." when they discover the truth about the hull weight variation, maybe. Sort of upsets the "I don't care how what boat I sail so long as yours is just as bad" strict one-design mentality.

That is an unduly harsh assessment, of course, but I can only wonder at people  for whom racing is more important than the sensation of sailing.  They might almost be better off playing a video game - on identical PC's, of course!

Back on topic, those Phantom variations are significantly greater as a percentage of displacement than the 2k ones.  The Streaker class shows a hull weight variation from 36kg to 71 - nearly double!:

Buyer beware  Ouch
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:49am
I am also amazed by the weight differential in recent Rooster Streakers from 48kg to 53 kg weighed at the 2008 nationals.

If I owned number 1657 I would be sending it back to Rooster! It is not as if it is an old boat at that event.
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Posts: 142 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Turner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:58am
For the record, Ovington became the licensed builder for the Phantom in March of this year.
All previous hulls were built to a weight not exceeding 55kg as requested, this allowed the customer 6kg for fittings and centreboard.
It was later found that this was not enough as there was quite a range in fit outs and centreboard weights.
The supplied bare hull weight was then dropped a few kg's...For the past year or so all boats should be fitted either on or below class weight depending on fit out.
Interestingly we found a 2kg range between centreboards from different suppliers...    
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

 

That is an unduly harsh assessment, of course, but I can only wonder at people  for whom racing is more important than the sensation of sailing.  They might almost be better off playing a video game - on identical PC's, of course!

Back on topic, those Phantom variations are significantly greater as a percentage of displacement than the 2k ones.  The Streaker class shows a hull weight variation from 36kg to 71 - nearly double!:

Buyer beware  Ouch


Bloody hell, I'm (nearly Wink) speechless........nearly as bad as the vagaries in handicap racing.
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 12:17pm
Having purchased SMODs new, I can quite imagine NOT wanting them publicly weighed- ever, at all and never collated in a list like that.  All that serves to do is reduce the cost for second hand owners.... 

Devaluing some of the boats, past any dates of warranty, with little recourse to the OEM outside of 'goodwill' is not good for anyone.  The end result will be price increases... not good.

I now sail a class which is weighed at measurement.  That's fine, it works and my RYA Measurement Cert is as much a part of the boat as the thwart and deck, so this passes to the new owner when/if I sell it... but I wouldn't want it in a SMOD outside of the very top level of equipment-supplied ISAF events, that's just not part of the 'SMOD game' imho.




Edited by pondmonkey - 22 Apr 13 at 12:18pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 12:32pm
I suspect people can get too het up about weight.. If you aren''t weighing your sailing gear and optimising it for the (almost) bare minimum in light airs races/maximum in strong wind races and dieting to be the 'perfect' weight for your class there probably isn't much point in anicking about the odd few kg extra on the boat. There are an awful lot of things that score higher in my list of boatspeed priorities.

I suspect the biggest advantage of not weighing the boats in an SMOD class is that no-one gets pysched out by boat weights...
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