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mangoman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 9:46am
I am coming up to the windward mark on port; the next leg is still to windward but more of a tight fetch on port.
I am probably a boat's length or so away from the mark lining up for the next leg.
Another boat is coming up to the mark on starboard but on his present course I will easily pass in front of him; as he gets to the mark he heads up as he has overstood the mark by quite a bit and calls starboard on me forcing me to tack off to avoid him.
I may be wrong but I don't think he can alter course like that to get into a right of way position ?
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 10:11am
Why did you tack off if you were easily going to pass in front? I had this yesterday, rounding on port, leeward port on starboard coming up trying a hail to confuse.. just tell them to hold their course, if they clip you then you deal with it by doing your turns, if you know they're going to hit you then rightly tack off, difficult to prove in a starboard port confrontation that they altered course to bring about the situation.

Short answer either call their bluff or tack off, only you know if you would have cleared them anyway.

He's going to argue that you made him tack off anyway, so unless there is a collision, no harm done, but likely you'll end up in the protest room anyway if it's a serious race, just because of the close proximity.

So, either you are clear ahead and there was no chance or he's close enough to call, that is the deciding factor..

Edited by iGRF - 22 Apr 13 at 10:15am
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 10:20am
Opposite tacks on a beat to windward ... no mark-room for you there (rule 18.1( a ))
 
Other boat with right of way on starboard changing course ... must give you room to keep clear (rule 16.1).
 
You tacked away and kept clear.
 
No rule broken.
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:20am
Why would he "head up" if he's "over stood" Surely he''d have to bear off?
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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:34am
Originally posted by alstorer

Why would he "head up" if he's "over stood" Surely he''d have to bear off?


Sounds like they are rounding the mark on the Stbd side of the boat. The other way to most racing.
Needs to sail more...
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:48am
I guess this was at buoy 31, to be left to starboard before continuing on, on a port fetch as you say, to 30?

It was easy to over-stand 31 as the tide was sweeping you above it, so Mr Starboard's hardening up was probably done without malice, as he was just  coming onto the beat again after close reaching in to the mark having overstood. 

He had to pay heed to Rule 16.1 "When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear".  Apparently he did this though , as you were indeed able to keep clear?
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mangoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:55am
Originally posted by iGRF

Why did you tack off if you were easily going to pass in front? I had this yesterday, rounding on port, leeward port on starboard coming up trying a hail to confuse.. just tell them to hold their course, if they clip you then you deal with it by doing your turns, if you know they're going to hit you then rightly tack off, difficult to prove in a starboard port confrontation that they altered course to bring about the situation.

Short answer either call their bluff or tack off, only you know if you would have cleared them anyway.

He's going to argue that you made him tack off anyway, so unless there is a collision, no harm done, but likely you'll end up in the protest room anyway if it's a serious race, just because of the close proximity.

So, either you are clear ahead and there was no chance or he's close enough to call, that is the deciding factor..


I was going to pass ahead until they altered course hardening up into the wind as they passed the mark; then they were coming straight at me so I had to tack to avoid the collision.
I see it that they cannot alter course to get into that position forcing me to take avoiding action and should have held their course and gone behind me; if the mark had not been there and I was happily sailing along on port and I knew I was going to pass clear ahead and then they suddenly alter course I thought they had no rights ?
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mangoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 11:56am
Originally posted by alstorer

Why would he "head up" if he's "over stood" Surely he''d have to bear off?


Mark was to be left to starboard and there was a strong tide pushing you down on to the mark just to exarcebate the situation


Edited by mangoman - 22 Apr 13 at 11:57am
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mangoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

I guess this was at buoy 31, to be left to starboard before continuing on, on a port fetch as you say, to 30?

It was easy to over-stand 31 as the tide was sweeping you above it, so Mr Starboard's hardening up was probably done without malice, as he was just  coming onto the beat again after close reaching in to the mark having overstood. 

He had to pay heed to Rule 16.1 "When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear".  Apparently he did this though , as you were indeed able to keep clear?


Yes I suppose I did have room to tack and keep clear; just a bit miffed that it put me going in the wrong direction at the time.
Anyway, as us who were there know with what happened with the wind later it made no difference !
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 13 at 12:10pm
I suspect, Mike, that you have fond memories of the proper rules of yore, in particular Rule 35 which stated that "the right of way yacht shall not alter course to prevent the other yacht from keeping clear..."

Except, that rule went on to say "except when assuming a proper course....when rounding a mark", so you'd have been stuffed then as well!
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