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One turn penalties

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: One turn penalties
    Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 9:58pm
Ah maaan - apologies you're correct, 2 turns...muchos apologies! I agree, some people take the micky and try and do it alot later in the race - black and white though:
 

44.2 One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties

After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of the line before finishing

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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by gordon

Therule was modified from720° to Two turn because it is easy to answer the question did the boat tack and gybe twice, wheras did she turn360° (and not 359°) was a difficultquestio to which giva an adequate answer.

Can't say I agree with classes which effectively say wait until it is convenient before taking your penalty. This is as much about seeing that justice is done.

Gordon



It's not always justice though, sometimes people take a penalty because they are unsure whether what happened was their fault, there are times when you don't want people to be out of the game, just going through the motions for a poor result, you want to enjoy racing against them.
Sometimes 5 turns would not be enough.
Other times just tacking off would be fine by me.

There can be  a difference in club racing, where a boats only crime is to fail to predict what boats in another fleet or some other outside influence.

But in most cases if the difference between 1 or 2 turns makes you not enjoy the racing, it's all out of shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by gbr940

...
 
This twaddle about keelboats who can't turn 720 degrees in light wind should is utter rubbish, any decent race crew can spin a keelboat/yacht almost on its keel with the right know how -.....
 

There are quite a lot of people racing long keel dayboats like XOD's, Victory, Sunbeams, which will stop dead in some circumstances, for instance if the wind is light but there is chop from wind over tide.
A modern fin keel yacht is a different animal.
But this is the dinghy forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 7:54pm
Therule was modified from720° to Two turn because it is easy to answer the question did the boat tack and gybe twice, wheras did she turn360° (and not 359°) was a difficultquestio to which giva an adequate answer.

Can't say I agree with classes which effectively say wait until it is convenient before taking your penalty. This is as much about seeing that justice is done.

Gordon


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Post Options Post Options   Quote gbr940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 7:38pm
Can I just say it's 720 degrees not 2 turns - as per the RRS. This penalty is absolutely sufficient, a single turn does not penalise enough for the crime you may (or may not have committed). If someone doesn't do a penalty take them to the room or at least discuss it ashore and if it was a blatant infringement perhaps recommend retirement to the protestor.  
 
This twaddle about keelboats who can't turn 720 degrees in light wind should is utter rubbish, any decent race crew can spin a keelboat/yacht almost on its keel with the right know how - 360 degrees isn't a big enough penalty for any infringement, in some instances you can actually come out better then when you started the penalty manouver.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 6:34pm

"one turn" is also pretty common in fast asymmetric racing. Often with the penalty for hitting a mark entirely removed. A variation that I've also seen (though only occasionally) is that if a penalty is incurred  downwind it doesn't have to be taken until the head of the spinnaker is below the gooseneck- ie you don't have to drop, spin and re-hoist. 

Ultimately, for class racing, these things are up to the class to decide what works for them. For mixed handicap club fleets, they are for the fleet members to decide what works for them. If penalties are too lenient and observance of the rules too lax the racing will cease to be fun.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 2:52pm
I think we should go back to infringe and retire or be DSQ Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 9:55am
But then in match racing we are not talking about a "self-policing"sport. There is no provision to take a voluntary penalty. Competitors play to the whistle - exactly what we want to avoid.

One turn penalties work on short courses, or in keelboats which take time to turn. Adding the provision that additional turns may be taken until any advantage gained seems to me to be sensible.

It is always infuriating to be fouled and then watch the guilty boat take quick turns and sail away leaving you behind trying to sort out the mess created.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 12:27am
One turn is more common in keelboats, where 2 turns, particularly in light winds - can be a huge penalty. 

And the penalty in match racing is a gybe on the beat and a tack on the run. Taken at any time - you don't have to take it straight away (unless it's your second, or the umps have give you double penalty (deliberate breach), or given you one with a red flag because your infringement resulted in a change in control). 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 12:23am
That would not really work if the boat that was fouled was ahead and stayed ahead in the moments afterwards, (e.g. being hit on the transom by an overtaking boat.) 
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