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JVSAIL View Drop Down
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Posts: 17 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JVSAIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule 78
    Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 5:36pm
So I was told that I'm not aloud to protest sailiors at my club who do not sail by there class rules. This mainly is people sailing double handed boats singlehanded. which means there handicap is wrong and it has become very hard for me in an RS200 to beat slower boats which i shold beat hands down. short of moving clubs i'm not sure what else to do. Happy Sailing.
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Posts: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Quagers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 5:40pm
Im sorry, Im not quite sure what you are saying. That you are not allowed to protest these boats for anything (port, starboard etc.) or that your not allowed to protest them for sailing outside of their class rules? 
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 6:01pm
Be careful, for handicap racing not all class rules are applicable, otherwise RSs would be allowed to smash into all the marks.

I think you might struggle to win a protest of this nature at any club. The issue is really to do with how the club handles sailing a boat in a configuration for which it does not have a PY number. I am absolutely positive that the RYA view on this would be that as a club you should be creating your own PY numbers using the new PYS site, and that this includes PYs for dinghies not sailed in the usual config. For 2 man boats sailing singlehanded I think your best course of action would be to talk to the boats involved, the fleet captain and the sailing sec. and try to identify a fair number for them. This number can then be used as a basis until you get a better figure out of PYS.

Remember the published PY numbers are only a national guideline and that the RYA recommends you adjust locally.

Also consider what classes are involved. If its the likes of Miracles and Grads etc. The benefits of sailing crew-less are pretty small if not zero, as most are often sailed by parents and kids with the kids weighing virtually nothing and the parent sailing the boat.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 6:04pm
Well, a club isn't permitted to refuse a valid protest. That's basic in the RRS. However I'm quite sure you'll kick up an awful lot of bad feeling if you do. So maybe a move to a different club might be a better alternative.

Craigo - touching marks in certain classes is Sailing Instructions not class rules. That's a crucial distinction because class rules do apply in handicap racing.

Edited by JimC - 04 Nov 12 at 6:06pm
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 6:26pm
Burghfield allow singletons in doublehanders, but they take a twenty or thirty point penalty from memory. Still fives the singlehander the advantage in zepher breezes, but as soon as hiking is required it evens out pretty quickly.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 7:15pm
At Whitefriars, we take 20 points from any boat slower than 1000 (I admit a number picked for ease of use). That way, boats like Fireballs sailing singlehanded, which are unlikely to be faster (even if using the spinnaker, it is unlikely to be smooth singlehanded) don't get a penalty, but a boat like a Firefly does. It doesn't really work (I'd still win in up to a force 2, and lose horribly thereafter, but it stops people dumping the crew for the light stuff. That, and it counting as a different boat in the race series.

So, all in all, sounds like something to bring up with the sailing committee, not the protest one.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Neptune

Burghfield allow singletons in doublehanders, but they take a twenty or thirty point penalty from memory. Still fives the singlehander the advantage in zepher breezes, but as soon as hiking is required it evens out pretty quickly.
 
Yep we do exactly the same, well 20 point penalty from memory.
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 8:06pm
Give us the details and we could perhaps work on a protest. The ideal would then to take any decision to appeal and get a definitive answer. Or ask your club to request clarification.
Gordon
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 8:26pm
The starting point is whether the SI state which Class Rules (CR), if any apply.

Rule J2.1(3) requires the SI to state '... the classes to race ...', then, the CR of the the classes listed will apply (Definitions: rules).

I am guessing that for PY races, your club might not state the classes to race in the SI, or at least not do so directly.  In which case you might have difficulty establishing which, if any CR apply.

I am also guessing that RYA will have a sample SI which should deal effectively with application of CR in PY racing.

  
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 12 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by JimC

Craigo - touching marks in certain classes is Sailing Instructions not class rules. That's a crucial distinction because class rules do apply in handicap racing.


My mistake, you are of course correct Jim.

As for class rules, some clearly state number of crew, but others don't. Unless you really know your class rules you could end up in a tricky situation.

At the end of the day, good communication and allowing the discussions to be had will provide an answer, so rather than talking about it on here, go and talk to the relevant people in your club and get it sorted out.
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