| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
Mark room |
Post Reply 
|
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|
djdhi 
Groupie 
Joined: 06 Oct 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Mark roomPosted: 16 Oct 11 at 5:33pm |
|
|
I was racing recently when owing to a fortunate gust I overhauled a boat just on the 3 lengths circle round a mark, which was disputed. This type of incident is very common. The sailor ahead was concentrating on overtaking another boat which was very close to him and therefore could not, or chose not,to look behind. I am old enough to remember when the rule was 'mast abeam'. This seems to be a better rule as the leading sailor in a pack does not have to look round and cannot ignore an overtaking boat. Any thoughts ?
djdhi
|
||
 |
||
|
JimC
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 11 at 6:26pm |
|
|
You must be older than you thought, because I'm fairly old and can't remember that the overlap at marks was ever mast abeam... Mast abeam was the point at which you had to stop luffing I believe. On overlaps the guidelines are that if there's doubt an overlap was made in time its considered it wasn't made, and if there's doubt it was broken it time consider that it wasn't broken.
|
||
|
||
|
Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 11 at 8:16pm |
|
|
Blimey, if the rule was mast abeam, where would boats with 1/2 a boat length go when they were denied room?
If you think you have an overlap at 3 boat lengths, ask for water. Be prepared to either do turns when you decide that maybe you weren't quite there, or tofight your corner in a protest room. As Jim says, the onus will be on you to prove you gained the over lap.
Funny how 3 boat lengths for the lead boat is so much longer than the catching up boat thinks it is... wish there was a better, more measurable way of deciding.
|
||
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
||
|
||
|
Fraggle
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 28 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 220 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 11 at 10:52am |
|
|
Always an interesting exercise is to ask people to judge 3 boat lengths (of whatever they sail) on shore - its always miles out and its far easier to do on shore than on water!
|
||
|
||
|
jeffers
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 11 at 1:03pm |
|
|
When racing you need to be aware of all boats around you, not just the one you are trying to overtake.
Plus do remember the caveat which is that if there is any doubt if a boat does or does not have an overlap then it is assumed they do not (unless you can prove otherwise by having a witness in the protest room).
Fraggle raises a very good point though. I had an recent incident where I was denied Room because the guy in front claimed we were 6+ boatlengths away then denied me at what I judged to tbe 1.5 BL but he judged as 3.
After the race I asked him to show me on shore a distance of 3 BL, not surpisingly he got it wrong (we both sail Lasers)....
Plus when judging remember it is your bow (or the closest part of the closest boat, so 99 times out of 100 the bow, sprits unless they are fixed do not count if memory serves) so it is often a lot further away than you think! Edited by jeffers - 17 Oct 11 at 1:04pm |
||
|
Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
||
|
||
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 11 at 1:39pm |
|
I don't believe that is correct... Its one of those occasions where what ISAF call "Last point of certainty" comes in. In this case its specifically stated in 18.2d
|
||
|
||
|
Garry
Really should get out more
Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 11 at 4:53pm |
|
|
Two things to say on this: 1. exactly this happened to us at the weekend at about the 3 lengths circle we agreed with the outside boat that we would go inside, thank you Rhys, from where I was sitting it was impossible to say if I did or didn't have an overlap, this was at the point where we still had the option to go outside because we weren't so close to the windward boat that it would have been a problem, just slow. 2. Often the inside boat can go somewhere, its called missing the mark, gybing and coming back! This option hardly ever seems to enter anyone's head! When you can't the outside boat should let you in if they can (avoiding contact) and then you should retire or do your penalty depending on the advantage gained. IMHO if you build up a reputation for following the rules most other sailors are more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt in these situations. |
||
|
Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
||
|
||
|
Brass
Really should get out more
Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 11 at 9:56pm |
|
Sprits do not count for boatlengths: the definition of zone relies on hull lengths.
Sprits do count for overlaps or 'reaching' the zone. Some classes with retractable sprits have rules about when you may and may not extend or retract the sprit to partially deal with this issue.
|
||
|
||
|
deadrock
Groupie
Joined: 24 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Oct 11 at 11:49pm |
|
|
Equipment Rules of Sailing: Page 14, Section D.1.1:
Definition of Hull: The shell including any transom, the deck including any superstructure, the internal structure including any cockpit, the fittings associated with these parts and any corrector weights. The diagram on the same page makes clear that a bowsprit is not included in the definition of Hull. Therefore a bowsprit, fixed or extendable, does not count when calculating hull-length at a mark, though it does count for establishing an overlap when in its normal position. You would probably be on sticky ground (or is that water?) if your moveable bowsprit was extended before rounding the windward mark and you claimed an overlap on the basis of it. If you hail an experienced competitor from behind for a marginal/late overlap, may say 'No water', give you the water anyway, and then protest. You would then have to prove that you'd had the overlap in the protest room. Probably wise to take the two turns. |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy