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Presuming Ed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Classes Table Discussion
    Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 7:48am
Originally posted by alstorer

Anyway, perhaps there should be a place for the RYA here to have criterea for "National Champions"- though i'm not sure what then to call smaller classes events that don't meet the criterea but still mean something to those who take part?

AIUI from my dad, it used to be the case (back in the dawn of time) that only national and international classes could hold nationals.  Hence National 12, National Hornet etc (full list here), and unless a class was recognised as such by the RYA, it wasn't allowed to hold a national champs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 8:37am
I think some of the International classes were National at various times.
This would apply to Fourteens, Fireballs, Enterprise? others?

Have classes lost their national status?


But maybe we are drifting from the point. I think people want to keep an eye on trends in most classes, it doesn't hurt to have data from a few obscure ones. Webspace is not rationed like magazine pages.
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 12:09pm
 
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

 
AIUI from my dad, it used to be the case (back in the dawn of time) that only national and international classes could hold nationals.  Hence National 12, National Hornet etc (full list here), and unless a class was recognised as such by the RYA, it wasn't allowed to hold a national champs. 

The 12 isn't on that list!

But perhaps a return to that situation wouldn't be an awful thing. I'd allow everything with ISAF International status to hold Nationals, regardless of distrubution and numbers, but for other boats some sort of measure of how widely they're sailed (not just the attendence at nationals and Traveller series) should be used- if PY returns weren't so patchy they'd be useful for this, along with notes of club OD fleet sizes. For instance, the Sandhopper keelboat really shouldn't be able to declare a "national Champion" given that it is barely sailed outside of two clubs in Essex little over ten miles apart (as the crow flies)- there's several more, mainly in the keelboats it has to be said.


It would cause upset though, to "ban" nationals for small classes.

-_
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by JimC

The supply of decent cars and bikes for track racing has never dried up but increasingly its from small specialist suppliers not the mass market. Don't see why racing boats should be any different in the long term. We've already seen most mass producers abandon high end racing boats.

AltOboats  is certainly a specialist supplier. It has been designed by dinghy sailors and is now being run by AltO owners.  No owners of new boats bought since launch of the prototype AltO in 2008, have sold their boat throughout our thorough two/three year testing period. I wonder what percentage of RS100 new owners have sold theit boat?
At the recent Pyfleet Week we, the class, were happy that the boat more than met the design criteria and that all systems were now fully tested and were without problems, unlike many of the recent flood of new mass produced classes rushed onto the market to meet accounting commitments.

We are now moving into our expansion phase. A facebook group is just being formed and the website now undergoing changes will reflect that we are a new niche class which is here for the future.

We would like to believe that the AltO class is creating a new specialist class format to be part of the twenty first century dinghy racing scene and the new financial climate.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 2:12pm
I think the Alto has an uphill struggle.
It's a tough climate, and there are plenty of choices in the two handed, single trapeze field.
I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, as it looks a nice boat.
At least the RS100 owners were able to sell their boats for a reasonable return.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by oldarn

I wonder what percentage of RS100 new owners have sold theit boat?


I'm afraid those stats aren't in the public domain, I'd guess 20-25% of the first 100 'special offer boats' are now onto their second owner within their second year, but I could be wrong.

What is in the public domain (and keeping within the class nationals stats) is that 25 of 43 sailors who competed in the nationals in 2010, have either sold on or choose not to attend the 2011 Nationals- that's a 44% retention rate from one nationals to the next

Fortunately RS sold enough to get the overall numbers for 2011 back to 46. Is this a high attrition rate... who knows, can't really tell much from nationals attendance, but a growth of only 3 net competitors despite another 150+ boats out there doesn't look great.

Edited by rogue - 15 Sep 11 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 2:36pm
46/250 is not bad by most standards.
Apart from x-boats at Cowes, who has a better ratio?
Too early to judge the 100 I'd say.
You have to take into account that the first 100 boats were sold with just a trial sail here and there, the class had zero miles on the clock, hardly surprising some people decided to move on.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

I think the Alto has an uphill struggle.
It's a tough climate, and there are plenty of choices in the two handed, single trapeze field.
I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, as it looks a nice boat.


Of course it won't be easy in the present economic climate and yes its tough out there, but,  I'm interested in your comment that there is plenty of choice. What choice sub PY 950 and asymmetric that is in productions, is it just the 5O5 at twice the price?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Too early to judge the 100 I'd say.


+1

and the point about trial sails here and there is very true.

It's certainly morphed into more of a thoroughbred than initially presented. £10k for a new boat would support this too.

Edited by rogue - 15 Sep 11 at 3:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 11 at 3:29pm
but the 100 had to morph into something that wasn't a vareo so it was always going to end up where it did - or am i being niave?
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