Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Classes Table Discussion |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 9:16am |
Following on from the Phantom is thriving thread, I'd have though what was more pertinent is what's suddenly going on with the Contender..
A couple of years ago we had none and now we have 6 in our club, the nationals this year appeared to have doubled, was this due to a favourable venue or weather? What's going on? Then the other subject coming from that table is the fact there are now more classes than there are on average competitors competing in them, shouldn't this mean some sort of action is taken? Apart from it being a bit meaningless calling yourself a National Champion when twenty boats or less compete, the dilution surely doesn't do anyone any good. Should it not be a pre requisite before you get listed or continue to get listed that you have a minimum number of competitors? Anyway, two points I'm sure this thread could derive some excellent discussion on what maybe ought to happen to drag dinghy sailing out of the depths of the early twentieth century here well into the twenty-first. Anyway back then to my first point if ever there were a Carpe Diem moment for you Contender boys it's now, reduce the weight, change the rig and you could rule, my guess it's the lack of anything else that works with a trapeze.
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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There's more to class racing than the Nationals.
It's just an easy indicator to stick in a table. What do we want from a class? In my case it's accessible, level racing locally, plus some open meetings to go to. I'm not committed enough to worry about my overall score in the travellers series, but having a good fixture list is important. Having a class start at Fed week (our local big regatta week) is a big plus point too. Also, in terms of enjoyable fleet racing, I prefer a fleet of 25 boats to compete in, rather than 50 or 75. A huge fleet may look good on paper, and be great if you're in the top 3, but it doesn't necessarily offer the best sailing for everyone. You also need to think about the achievement level of the fleet. No point being the only overweight middle aged club sailors in a fleet of Olympians or vice versa. |
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rogue ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
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n'ah b**locks- diversity is good, sail a boat you want to sail and embrace the full potential of an ever-improving handicap system by actually using PY as properly intended- most clubs / regattas don't.
look at your signature - Alto and V-Twin - neither would exist if dinghyland was even more prescriptive than it currently is already. |
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Chris Turner ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 09 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 142 |
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The table gets skewed when you have a Worlds or International event either part of your Nationals or imediatly before.
Plenty of examples in the mix, I know in the Albacore in 05 some 70 odd boats for the Nationals, but the following year....
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winging it ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
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I don't think it's fair to say there were no contenders a couple of years ago. From what I remember the nationals that year were at Pwheli, the forecast was for very light winds, so lots of people didn't go. Last yeat the Nationals were at Whitby and the forecast was for very strong winds, so again, turnout wasn't brilliant.
Open meeting turnouts have been pretty steady over the last few years, and obviously better this year because we hosted the Worlds at the Olympic venue. A lot of the pr from this will demonstrate how truly international the class is, so hopefully the good times will continue. |
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the same, but different...
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winging it ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
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In terms of carpe diem, there is much discussion going on regarding building in epoxy, which might well be a good thing, but why change the rig? We have decent carbon spars and a healthy choice of sail materials, so why fiddle with a proven formula?
I think grumpf you need to improve your knowledge of the class and get a grasp of how successful it truly is before you suggest changes that are neither necessary nor productive! (and the offer is still there for a trip in my boat should you wisely choose to broaden your horizons) In terms of diversity I agree with James; if we didn't have all the idiosyncratic little classes, of which I seem to have gained a fair few lately, then dinghy development would stall completely. I have a classic low rider moth, cherub and i14, all classes that have contributed massively to what has happened in dinghy design. If someone had said back in the sixties or sevemties that we had too many classes and tried to halt the spread we might well have missed out on these gems. I think if a minor class is good enough it will succeed in the long term, like so many have done. If the class isn't good enough then economics and personal choice will take their toll. Survival of the fittest. Edited by winging it - 14 Sep 11 at 10:21am |
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the same, but different...
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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I think the success of the Contender is that it has not changed much.
This makes it accessible internationally and via an affordable secondhand market. If you don't like it, better to design something new as GRF has done, rather than warming it over in a Ford-sierra facelift excercise. Anyone remember the Rondar proposal for a new rig, about 15 years ago? With x years of experience from Contenders, RS600, 700's MPS's and others, I would hope it was possible to design an all-round improvement, but only at the expense of obsoleting the class stock. When I sailed one years ago, the class was quite defensive about the 'new' RS600. I think the Contender is better placed than the 600 now? You have to balance our interest in Development with our interest in actually racing what we have. |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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The full potential of the PY system is basically enjoy it on the water and rant about bandits on here. When the 'is the PY right today' debate is as long as the race I lose interest. |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Different classes are sailed by different people in different circumstances, so probably have different criteria for success. If there are 5 or 10 boats enjoying great racing in one place, that can be as much 'success' as 100 boats scattered around GB only coming together for the Nationals once a year. It may be more likely to stand the test of time. Of course builders will measure success in boats sold, owners may measure success by number of years/weekends/whatever good racing from one boat bought? |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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there is perhaps something in this- to have an official World or even European Championships, the class has to meet certain ISAF critera, and file yearly reports to justify retaining the status. Now, there are those who may say that the criterea are too lax and that some classes are not deserving of being able to declare a World Champion, but you take that one up with ISAF.
Many classes that don't meet the criterea hold "Eurocup" or "Interncontinental Championship" etc events that are often little more than "brits abroad with a couple of token locals"- there's nothing wrong with this, who doesn't like to go somewhere warmer and sunnier to sail?
Anyway, perhaps there should be a place for the RYA here to have criterea for "National Champions"- though i'm not sure what then to call smaller classes events that don't meet the criterea but still mean something to those who take part?
I appreciate though that whilst sailing may be extreme in it's proliferation, how many track and field athletics "National Champions" are there, especially given that there are many age categroies (and not just for kids), something that's a bit rarer in sailing?
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Al |
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