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IRC Level rating racing?
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: IRC Level rating racing?
    Posted: 05 Jun 10 at 9:56am
Now that the level rating class revival is gathering momentum, with the Mini Tonners joining in, is it not now time to envisage the creation of level rating classes for IRC rated boats.

If the gurus at IRC would accept the principle, then boats could apply for a special level rating measurement - the result being given as simply verified corrections to acheive the required rating. The corrections could be expressed in either weight (corrector weights to be positioned as per IRC defined spec) or sail area changes (or a combination of both.

Surely this would allow the return of what many would agree was the very best of racing in small offshore boats.

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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 10 at 4:36pm

definately one to think about....

do you mean use the old rule parameters (so not hugely modified to irc) but boats can modify to be competitve under irc.

or use a new irc version where boats can be designed from scratch but not out classing the older generation boats.

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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 10 at 6:59pm
I would suggest choosing a more or less round figure which is near the middle of the rating bands of the older boats, so that they can compete together with new boats.

Is there a rating genius who can work this out - I think the whole thing depends on IRC being able to come up with simple data to correct ratings...

Gordon
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 10 at 7:57pm

For those of us who are purely dinghy sailors, and so not sure what you are talking about, are you suggesting that lots of boats adjust their rig, ballast, whatever so they end up with the same rating, and so can sail as a fleet together, development class dinghy style? And if you choose a rating in the middle of a band, it means it is easier for more boats to achieve?

Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stck!
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 10 at 8:03pm
All boats race with no corrected time - so they adjust weight, rig etc to get below rating ceiling. This was how the "Ton Cups" worked (with a few rules about motors, stability etc). Remember that the Half Ton Cup did have an offshore, overnight race in the Cup programme.

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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 10 at 8:06am
Originally posted by gordon

I think the whole thing depends on IRC being able to come up with simple data to correct ratings.


It's an intriguing idea but goes against the "secret rule" principle in providing concrete data that changing x changes the rating by y. Secondly, if you look at the ratings in (say) the quarter tonner fleet there is quite a spread e.g. 0.869 to 0.912 at http://www.warsashspringseries.org.uk/results/whitechampions hipq1.htm. It would take an awful load of lead or sail area to even out that kind of variation.
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 10 at 8:09am
Originally posted by gordon

All boats race with no corrected time - so they adjust weight, rig etc to get below rating ceiling. This was how the "Ton Cups" worked


Also the International Metre classes. The key difference is that IOR and International Rule were public domain so a designer could calculate the rating but IRC is a "black box" system, which is intended to prevent undesirable rule exploitation.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 10 at 9:56am
Part of the variation in the Quarter Tonners is because of the wish to include all former Quarter Tonners in the competition.
However - if the new class rule was for a maximum rating of, for instance, .0890 then a new generation could develop.

I agree that a IRC Level Rating system would torture the "black box" concept somewhat, but I  suspect that many naval architects already have some idea of the effect of minor changes to the rating. By limiting the corrections to weight and/or sail area I ma not sure that IRC would become totally transparent.

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Posts: 339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 10 at 10:04pm
A pretty good idea!

I find the resurgence in IOR only understandable in that there are a lot of cheap boats for current recessionary pockets: it produced boats which could be obselete over night and had various degrees of safety.

One thing the yanks have been ahead of the UK in is having an IRC - S break out fleet at some events for sportier boats of lighter displacement : bavarias need not apply!
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 10 at 5:04am
Originally posted by damp_freddie

I find the resurgence in IOR


There is no resurgence in IOR. There's a resurgence in former IOR boats, most of which have had extensive and expensive surgery to make them competitive IRC boats. Debumped, heavier keels, new rigs.

One thing the yanks have been ahead of the UK in is having an IRC - S break out fleet at some events for sportier boats of lighter displacement


Firstly, I'm not too sure the USA actually has any such divisions right now, albeit it's been discussed as a possibility on SA. If you can point us at a results sheet with an "IRC-S" class I'll cheerfully eat my words on that point.  Secondly, the UK in fact had LDB and ULDB subdivisions of CHS fleets in the late 80s. Unfortunately not enough owners wanted to play that game.


Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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