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    Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by sargesail

Well funnily enough the answer in the 300 turned out to be - keep more kicker on!  Using up some of the bend characteristics of the mast with kicker induced fore and aft bend prevents the "sideways into fore and aft bend" on the run.

 

Yep on Sunday looking up the mast bend was aft, held in place by the kicker allowing me to trim the mainsheet to suit the breeze. 

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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 4:54pm

There is not a lot of bow in front of the mast on the D-One compared to the 100, in length anyway.  This could be why the boat behaves like this.  I dont think it is the boats fault though, if you know its going to happen then you can react to this, and thats what the sailors have done by sailing higher while hoisting. 

In waves there is so much buoancy in the 100 hull that I think the boat will be fine, as long as it is flat.  It is lower to the water than the D-one but that just means you have to keep the boat flatter, a solution to a "problem" that isnt there unless the boat is not sailed in its own way. 

I dont think either boat is "better" than the other, I didnt put my money down on the 100 because it is a better boat, but because I could have a hope of affording it.  Lets be honest here, you are always going to feel outnumbered on a forum like this when the 100 already has so many buyers, all waiting for their new boats.  There are far less D-one owners so whether it is on the forum or in the boat park you will always feel outnumberd in the D-one!

The D-one is a much more extreme boat in terms of engineering and I kind of respect it for that, there are draw backs with this but once these are overcome it will be very rewarding.  The semi stayed rig on the 100 was the safe move, but at the end of the day it makes the boat more sailable out of the box for sailors coming from other classes.  I think the fact that the 100 has enthusiastic sailors who are confident in their class should not be considered out of order.  We dont hear a lot from the d-one enthusiasts because there arent many, not sure if there is a reason for this! I think the D-one is Luca's baby, the 100 is cleverly marketed by LDC to make it the forums baby, so coming to the 100s parents (the people on this forum) and trying to promote your child to them is never going to run too smoothly, especially when there are going to be 200 of these parents by the end of the year!  There has been a lot of positive response to both boats so I would take that if I was Luca, he has no doubt made a good boat but perhaps not marketed it as well as LDC have marketed the 100.  To many changes to the sailing style and lifestyle in my eyes!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 5:03pm
Tim,
This is really quite interesting about the kicker, i too am from a 400
background and jeez am i struggling to get my head around keeping it
on.
In the 4's, obviously we blow the kicker completely, massive ease on the
main, rig to weather and pretty much spin on a six-pence round the
weather mark. Are you more sailing it round, taking the manoeuvre
slower sailing a bigger arc?
btw, with things so tense on here at the moment i just wanna say im in
no way criticising you. you have clearly made it work and having never
sailed the d1 am taking your word for it. im just merely trying to get my
head around something that in my head cant work.....or rather my head
doesnt want to work.

I guess my best comparison is from sailing lasers. in them bearing off is
impossible with the kicker on as it just causes a massive imbalance in the
rig causing the boat to want to luff. plus also there is always the risk of
the boom hittin the piss which inevitably causes a swim.

is there a science behind this? am i missing the obvious or am i just on
completely the wrong track?

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sargesail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 5:33pm

Well in the 300 the imbalance is not there if you sail it flat and the bear away is achieved with windward heel (bags of freeboard).

The kicker is on (ish) for the run and then eased for the Gybe (if you don't the shock load on the mainsheet can rip it right out your hand.  That problem should be minimised in the D1 by having a kite to pull you through, although I guess keeping the rig in balance could be interesting as main or kite fills first.

Must find someone to let me have a go!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:06pm
whoops sorry should have checked in earlier!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:19pm

Originally posted by Jamesd

Tim,
This is really quite interesting about the kicker, i too am from a 400
background and jeez am i struggling to get my head around keeping it
on.
In the 4's, obviously we blow the kicker completely, massive ease on the
main, rig to weather and pretty much spin on a six-pence round the
weather mark. Are you more sailing it round, taking the manoeuvre
slower sailing a bigger arc?
btw, with things so tense on here at the moment i just wanna say im in
no way criticising you. you have clearly made it work and having never
sailed the d1 am taking your word for it. im just merely trying to get my
head around something that in my head cant work.....or rather my head
doesnt want to work.

I guess my best comparison is from sailing lasers. in them bearing off is
impossible with the kicker on as it just causes a massive imbalance in the
rig causing the boat to want to luff. plus also there is always the risk of
the boom hittin the piss which inevitably causes a swim.

is there a science behind this? am i missing the obvious or am i just on
completely the wrong track?

Yep basically the deal is 11sm of mainsail with a small bow and a mast that is designed to bend.....however if the over cooked in the strong stuff then the bow wants to go if too much sail is presented to the wind....it never actually does but it feels slow.

So with the 400 the jib keeps things lifting, although I tend to go dead downwind to hoist, however the foredeck is longer.

I think you are thinking too much about what the 400 does.....if I did that in the D-One, deep wise there would be trouble. But there is incredible righting moment with the wings and with the mast held in position the only bend would possibly be sideways instead of over the front.

So bearing away onto a reach not a dead run is the trick.

The hull works brilliantly when on the plane and everything is lifting not ploughing.

When the kite goes up then the boat goes deeper in a gust and you can then trim the kicker and mainsheet to suit.

I have mentioned previously it would be impossible to bear off to a dead run with the kicker on, it would trip over itself, just like you are imagining I guess.

Does that explain it?

Timg

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 8:35am
Originally posted by timg

So with the 400 the jib keeps things lifting

[FX:sigh]
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